SeatalkNG to Seatalk bridging options

[MountainGoat]

Hi all. Long time lurker, first time poster, but am hoping for some advice.

We have a Sun Odyssey 30i, which we bought last year after the previous owner barely sailed her, so she's basically a brand new second hand boat. I was lucky to get her.

She came with an ST60+ tridata, ST60+ wind and ST6002 autopilot head on the binnacle. These are linked via Seatalk to an SPX5 autopilot, which is linked via Seatalk to a C90W plotter above the chart table. This was linked to a Ray 55E radio via NMEA0183. The ST60+ instruments directly interface to the speed, depth and wind transducers.

The radio wasn't receiving properly and determining it was basically unserviceable we recently replaced it with an ICOM 506 with built in AIS receiver.

In order to get AIS on the C90W, we purchased a SeatalkNG starter kit and the NMEA2000 adaptor cable for the radio. Unfortunately the radio doesn't get GPS data from the chart plotter over the SeatalkNG for some reason, so we also connected the radio via NMEA0183, and it all started working.

We now have plans to upgrade the instrumentation to something more modern. In particular, the chart plotter is no-longer supported and despite running the most recent software update from Raymarine, its AIS support is best described as problematic.

I'm looking at an A9 series MFD to replace the C90W, and also looking at an i70 for the spare spot on the binnacle which will give me, amongst other things, AIS at the helm.

Sadly the A9 series won't be a drop in replacement for the C90W because while the C90W supports Seatalk1 and SeatalkNG, there is no Seatalk1 interface on the A9.

If money were no object, the thing to do would be to replace the two ST60+ instruments with an i40 and an i50, and the ST6002 with a p70, connect the SPX5 with Seatlak NG and thus eliminate Seatalk1 from the boat completely. However, that is an obscene amount of money to spend to replace perfercly serviceable instruments with ones that do exactly the same thing, but are black instead of grey.

So I figure we'll keep the two ST60+s and the ST6002, and try and bring them into the SeatalkNG/NMEA2000 world.

So my questions are as follows:

1) Why isn't the ICOM 506 getting GPS data from the C90W over NMEA2000? It sees the C90W and is selected to use it, but doesn't get a position. Note that the C90W is getting AIS data from the radio, so the SeatalkNG network is working.

2) If, as I'm assuming, this is down to the C90W not being properly NMEA2000 compliant, will the radio be able to get GPS data from an A9x without having to resort to connecting them via NMEA0183?

3) The C90W is currently bringing between the Seatalk and SeatalkNG networks. The A9 series has no Seatalk1 support, so I'll need another bridge. The obvious option is to use the Seatalk1 to SeatalkNG convertor kit and have the ST6002, two ST60+s and the SPX5 connected to each other via Seatalk1, then connect the SPX5 to the convertor and somehow bodge the Seatalk power (since the SPX5 and the STNG/ST convertor will both be wanting to power the Seatalk bus).

However, given the SPX5 has NMEA0183 out, and the A9 series has NMEA0183 in, can I use the SPX5 as a Seatalk1 to NMEA0183 bridge and get the transducer data to the A9 via NMEA0183?

4) If I do bring the data into the A9 via NMEA0183, will the A9 bridge the data onto the SeatalkNG bus and, given the A9 will be connected to the SPX5 via SeatalkNG as well, will this create a network loop, and if not, will the A9 still talk to the ST6002 properly?

Given the likelihood of something going wrong between the A9, the SPX5 and the ST6002 if I bridge via NMEA0183, I'm wary of going down this route, but if it will work it will save me a bit of money and make power distribution easier than using a Seatalk to SeatalkNG convertor.

I realise there's a lot there, and I hope what I want to do is clear enough. I'd be grateful for any help.

Sarah

 

[Nigelb]

I did something very similar last season, I found the only way to network the radio was to use a couple of the seatalk NG converter kits.

I used one in the cockpit for the legacy seatalk ST60 instruments and autopilot, dedicated new VHF cable, new Chart plotter cable, I then used a second at the chart table for power and the legacy instruments below.

 

[MountainGoat]

Is your autopilot head still connected to your autopilot via Seatalk, or is it tunnelling over SeatalkNG?

 

[Ric]

I think your proposed plan would work, but would not recommend it. It will just lead to complications further down the line if ever you want to add new kit.

I would do it properly and buy the Seatalk1-SeatalkNG connector. I have a similar set up with mixed instruments and it all works well.

Also, why are you planning to put the A9 at the nav table where you can't see it while sailing? Mount the new MFD at the helm where it will much more useful. You could leave the old C90 downstairs as a backup.

Here is a pic of my helm with ST60s, P70, i60 and an A68 mounted where the wobbly wobbly magnetic compass used to be.

 

[MountainGoat]

Can't fit a plotter on the binnacle. However, there's an iPhone holder there and the A9 series have remote mirroring via the iOS app. My other alternative would be to mount the chart plotter on the bulkhead.

I've gone ahead and ordered an A97 and the seatalkng converter kit. Hopefully I'll be able to get everything working next weekend. Planning to leave the SPX5 on seatalk1 and just not connect the power cable from the converter, which I believe should work.

The throughly broken AIS on the C90W was annoying me so much today that I disconnected it from the SeatalkNG bus. It. Was the only way to stop it giving me "AIS Connection Lost" errors every 10 seconds or so.

 

[Ric]

Can't fit a plotter on the binnacle. However, there's an iPhone holder there and the A9 series have remote mirroring via the iOS app. My other alternative would be to mount the chart plotter on the bulkhead.

It is a bit illogical to buy a waterproof daylight readable MFD then mount it inside, and then use a non-waterproof non-daylight readable iDevice outside. It took me a fair amount of time to re-engineer my boat with the MFD outside - but well worth it in the end.

Planning to leave the SPX5 on seatalk1 .

The SPX5 will run on both Seatalk1 or SeatalkNG. However, I would leave it on Seatalk1 since that is the network that your wind indicator is directly connected to. If by some remote chance, your Seatalk1-SeatalkNG converter packs up, your SPX5 will still receive wind information and heading information (as fluxgate compass is directly connected) so it will still work. Also, occasionally the SPX5 cannot see wind data on SeatalkNG network some setups.

and just not connect the power cable from the converter, which I believe should work

If you don't connect the converter to power, then it won't work at all so your p70 will not work, since it draws power from the SeatalkNG spine.

 

[MountainGoat]

If you don't connect the converter to power, then it won't work at all so your p70 will not work, since it draws power from the SeatalkNG spine.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly here. My SNG bus is already powered. The issue is that the convertor will try to power the ST1 network, as I understand it, but so will the SPX5. I guess I'll have to snip the red wire on the STNG-ST1 cable if I leave the SPX5 on ST1, and then connect the SPX5 via SNG to the MFD.

 

[geem]

If you purchase a single ST70 instrument you can plug seatalk1 devices like the ST60 into the ST70 on a daisy chain using a sea talk NG to seatalk 1 adapter cable. This is how my st60 instruments are set up. I have five ST60 and four ST70 configured this way. It means you could run the new chart plotter on NG and keep you old ST60 instruments

 

[MountainGoat]

If you purchase a single ST70 instrument you can plug seatalk1 devices like the ST60 into the ST70 on a daisy chain using a sea talk NG to seatalk 1 adapter cable. This is how my st60 instruments are set up. I have five ST60 and four ST70 configured this way. It means you could run the new chart plotter on NG and keep you old ST60 instruments

The ST1 to STNG converter does the same job as the ST70, but without the display, right? If I'm buying a new instrument, the i70 is more attractive than the ST70 for me, but of course it isn't a bridging device.

 

[geem]

There is an ST70 multifunction display on eBay for £125. Put it in the nav station and you have affectively got a repeater for your plotter. Handy when filling in your log book