cmedsailor
Well-Known Member
What is a raymarine 'seatalk'?Is it a device that links various instruments eg autopilot with gps etc,etc?
Seatalk??
- Thread starter cmedsailor
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BAtoo
Well-Known Member
Seatalk is Raymarine's information code that it uses to transmit information around its various instrument systems - bit like NMEA. Works on their 3-core wire system which also powers the instrument strings.
simonfraser
Well-Known Member
yep, some raymarine kit will take seatalk and nmea inputs
BrianH
Well-Known Member
Seatalk is Raymarine's proprietary communications protocol to share data between that company's products.
Most major manufacturers utilise their own proprietary protocols to interface their ranges of equipment (Raymarine: SeaTalk, Simrad: SimNet), usually different invocations and enhancements of the NMEA 0183 protocol.
Later versions are more directly compatible with the faster NMEA 0183-HS, NMEA 2000, protocols.
Raymarine allows such equipment as autopilots to also interface with other manufacturers of GPS devices with plain old NMEA 0183.
For example, my own Raymarine S1 Wheel Pilot will only accept SeaTalk wind data but can also accept my Garmin Plotter output by basic NMEA 0183 data to enable steering to successive waypoints.
Most major manufacturers utilise their own proprietary protocols to interface their ranges of equipment (Raymarine: SeaTalk, Simrad: SimNet), usually different invocations and enhancements of the NMEA 0183 protocol.
Later versions are more directly compatible with the faster NMEA 0183-HS, NMEA 2000, protocols.
Raymarine allows such equipment as autopilots to also interface with other manufacturers of GPS devices with plain old NMEA 0183.
For example, my own Raymarine S1 Wheel Pilot will only accept SeaTalk wind data but can also accept my Garmin Plotter output by basic NMEA 0183 data to enable steering to successive waypoints.
cpedw
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
For example, my own Raymarine S1 Wheel Pilot will only accept SeaTalk wind data but can also accept my Garmin Plotter output by basic NMEA 0183 data to enable steering to successive waypoints.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, that's spoiled my morning. I had thought that, when I've saved enough to afford the Tacktick NMEA box, I would be able to supply wind data to my S1 pilot. Not that I've read that part of the manual yet so you have convinced me.
Does anyone know if there's an easy way round this; and does it imrove the pilot's performance (under sail - it's very good and quite wind-independent under power) enough to make it worthwhile?
Derek
For example, my own Raymarine S1 Wheel Pilot will only accept SeaTalk wind data but can also accept my Garmin Plotter output by basic NMEA 0183 data to enable steering to successive waypoints.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, that's spoiled my morning. I had thought that, when I've saved enough to afford the Tacktick NMEA box, I would be able to supply wind data to my S1 pilot. Not that I've read that part of the manual yet so you have convinced me.
Does anyone know if there's an easy way round this; and does it imrove the pilot's performance (under sail - it's very good and quite wind-independent under power) enough to make it worthwhile?
Derek
pvb
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, that's spoiled my morning. I had thought that, when I've saved enough to afford the Tacktick NMEA box, I would be able to supply wind data to my S1 pilot. Not that I've read that part of the manual yet so you have convinced me.
Does anyone know if there's an easy way round this; and does it imrove the pilot's performance (under sail - it's very good and quite wind-independent under power) enough to make it worthwhile?
[/ QUOTE ]Don't let it spoil your morning - it's not true! I think Barnac1e hasn't read his manual either. The S1 Wheelpilot can take wind data input in NMEA format; however, without a multiplexer, you couldn't also input GPS data via NMEA. Alternatively, you can convert NMEA to SeaTalk using the E85001 interface.
Oh, that's spoiled my morning. I had thought that, when I've saved enough to afford the Tacktick NMEA box, I would be able to supply wind data to my S1 pilot. Not that I've read that part of the manual yet so you have convinced me.
Does anyone know if there's an easy way round this; and does it imrove the pilot's performance (under sail - it's very good and quite wind-independent under power) enough to make it worthwhile?
[/ QUOTE ]Don't let it spoil your morning - it's not true! I think Barnac1e hasn't read his manual either. The S1 Wheelpilot can take wind data input in NMEA format; however, without a multiplexer, you couldn't also input GPS data via NMEA. Alternatively, you can convert NMEA to SeaTalk using the E85001 interface.
earlybird
Well-Known Member
A "black box" is available from Raymarine to convert NMEA to Seatalk and vice-versa, but it's around £100.
Re. wind data to autopilot, the main, (only!),benefit is staying on a close-hauled course if the wind direction alters. The pilot will respond, albeit fairly slowly, it is not like a human helmsman in following wind-shifts. Not an essential feature fo most cruisers IMHO
Re. wind data to autopilot, the main, (only!),benefit is staying on a close-hauled course if the wind direction alters. The pilot will respond, albeit fairly slowly, it is not like a human helmsman in following wind-shifts. Not an essential feature fo most cruisers IMHO
boatmike
Well-Known Member
While the definitions given in other posts are correct, I would add that it is a completely unnecessary protocol that only serves to ensure that you can't interface anything other than raymarine instruments.
It is not only slower than NMEA it is a cynical marketing ploy to get around the original intention of NMEA which was to ensure that all manufacturers kit would talk to others. Raymarine in addition to this, change their protocols periodically to ensure that their new kit wont even talk to old kit of theirs and you have to buy new if you want an integrated system. I for one, won’t buy raymarine anymore because of this. I have Standard Horizon chart plotter, DSC VHF, Robertson (Simrad )autopilot, and old C-Trek instruments that eventually will need replacing but not with raymarine. The autopilot and instruments are 1996 vintage but still work well and will interface with anything. The Radar I have is Raymarine C70 which is very good but wont interface with anything else, even modern raymarine stuff like AIS chartplotters although I can get it to accept a compass input from my Robertson autopilot that Simrad have worked hard to convert to software giving me 10Hz NMEA at marginal cost. Raymarine give up on you after 5 years and tell you openly that they wont support kit that is “obsolete” If they adopted the NMEA protocol they wouldn’t need to and all kit would be backwards compatable.
If my autopilot had been Raymarine I would never have had the excellent service I got from Simrad. They would have said. Sorry, it's too old, buy a new one.
Rant over.
It is not only slower than NMEA it is a cynical marketing ploy to get around the original intention of NMEA which was to ensure that all manufacturers kit would talk to others. Raymarine in addition to this, change their protocols periodically to ensure that their new kit wont even talk to old kit of theirs and you have to buy new if you want an integrated system. I for one, won’t buy raymarine anymore because of this. I have Standard Horizon chart plotter, DSC VHF, Robertson (Simrad )autopilot, and old C-Trek instruments that eventually will need replacing but not with raymarine. The autopilot and instruments are 1996 vintage but still work well and will interface with anything. The Radar I have is Raymarine C70 which is very good but wont interface with anything else, even modern raymarine stuff like AIS chartplotters although I can get it to accept a compass input from my Robertson autopilot that Simrad have worked hard to convert to software giving me 10Hz NMEA at marginal cost. Raymarine give up on you after 5 years and tell you openly that they wont support kit that is “obsolete” If they adopted the NMEA protocol they wouldn’t need to and all kit would be backwards compatable.
If my autopilot had been Raymarine I would never have had the excellent service I got from Simrad. They would have said. Sorry, it's too old, buy a new one.
Rant over.
jsl
Well-Known Member
On the other hand, nice Scott at Raymarine found me replacement parts for my ancient Autohelm and sent them by return of post. And several years ago they replaced, FOC, the Autohelm control box, when it had been messed up by a so-called electronic engineer in Fowey.
philip_stevens
Well-Known Member
I have one of the Raymarine interface units - E85001 - that my mate wants to sell. He bought it for £120, but has never taken it out of the box. He wants £100 plus postage at the cheapest for it.
PM me if interested.
PM me if interested.
BrianH
Well-Known Member
Ahh, grovel, grovel; I stand corrected. I have connected my Raymarine wind set by SeaTalk and intend to connect the Garmin plotter, by necessity with NMEA 0183 and had erroneously assumed that was the only equipment allowed.
I have just checked the manual:
"The ST6001+ has a set of NMEA inputs so it can receive data in NMEA 0183 format from navigation or wind instruments. It can use this data to operate in Track or Wind Vane modes.
Note: If your ST6001+ control unit is part of a course computer
system, you can connect additional NMEA equipment to other parts of the system. To decode the maximum amount of NMEA data (so it can be transmitted onto SeaTalk), connect the navigator to the course computer NMEA terminals. Refer to the Autopilot System Installation Guide for more information.
The ST6001+ can decode the following NMEA 0183 navigation and wind data received:"
I have just checked the manual:
"The ST6001+ has a set of NMEA inputs so it can receive data in NMEA 0183 format from navigation or wind instruments. It can use this data to operate in Track or Wind Vane modes.
Note: If your ST6001+ control unit is part of a course computer
system, you can connect additional NMEA equipment to other parts of the system. To decode the maximum amount of NMEA data (so it can be transmitted onto SeaTalk), connect the navigator to the course computer NMEA terminals. Refer to the Autopilot System Installation Guide for more information.
The ST6001+ can decode the following NMEA 0183 navigation and wind data received:"
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Raymarine
Whilst I have to agree with many of your points Boatmike, many bits of Raymarine equipment will accept NMEA083 protocol.
Some will even feed out NMEA - however I'd agree that Seatalk is a very poor protocol and the sooner they drop it the better.
I've had good service from them and their autopilot range since the original Autohelm I was using in 1978.
Whilst I have to agree with many of your points Boatmike, many bits of Raymarine equipment will accept NMEA083 protocol.
Some will even feed out NMEA - however I'd agree that Seatalk is a very poor protocol and the sooner they drop it the better.
I've had good service from them and their autopilot range since the original Autohelm I was using in 1978.
moody1
Well-Known Member
When Hubby and I were looking at gear for our next boat, we searched the net for information about the protocol. He was convinced that he could sort one talking to another (Seatalk to NMEA and vv).
We found various sites that referrred to original code of Seatalk before reputedly Raymarine adopted it for their purposes. They apparently changed coding to ensure only their version of ST could interface.
It is our opinion that it backfired on them, as it wasn't too long before the + series of gear appeared. The + means it can communicate NMEA as well as ST.
As Hubby says and I note another post here also, it's a pity that manufacturers cannot just stay with an industry standard. That way the boater is better served and able to use what he decides and not what factory dictates.
Hubby finally decided against Raymarine based on 2 factors : pricing and Seatalk saga. I have no trouble with that, as all gear seems to do what we want and is purely NMEA only.
We found various sites that referrred to original code of Seatalk before reputedly Raymarine adopted it for their purposes. They apparently changed coding to ensure only their version of ST could interface.
It is our opinion that it backfired on them, as it wasn't too long before the + series of gear appeared. The + means it can communicate NMEA as well as ST.
As Hubby says and I note another post here also, it's a pity that manufacturers cannot just stay with an industry standard. That way the boater is better served and able to use what he decides and not what factory dictates.
Hubby finally decided against Raymarine based on 2 factors : pricing and Seatalk saga. I have no trouble with that, as all gear seems to do what we want and is purely NMEA only.
pvb
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you're being unnecessarily critical of Raymarine. The concept of SeaTalk is good - just plug'n'play a load of kit together, without the need for separate power cables or multiplexers to prevent NMEA data clashes. For those people who want to include non-Raymarine kit in their system, NMEA capability and the SeaTalk/NMEA interface provide an easy solution.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
The concept of "plug in and go" could be adopted with any protocol including NMEA.
There is absolutely no reason to "invent" a new system. The only reason they have to have their equipment receive (but generally not transmit) limited NMEA is because if they didn't no one would buy it at all. the principle of built in redundancy is at the bottom of this. No one can give me one good reason why any manufacturer should divert away from NMEA especially when the alternative is generally a slower data transfer rate. It's not just an NMEA or Seatalk issue either. I have a 6 year old C70 Pathfinder radar. They don't support it anymore. If my antenna goes on the blink a new one for the current range of radars won't interface with it. While it's a good set, if it goes belly up I will buy Furuno next time, or perhaps Standard Horizon will have theirs available by then, I understand they have one in the pipeline....
There is absolutely no reason to "invent" a new system. The only reason they have to have their equipment receive (but generally not transmit) limited NMEA is because if they didn't no one would buy it at all. the principle of built in redundancy is at the bottom of this. No one can give me one good reason why any manufacturer should divert away from NMEA especially when the alternative is generally a slower data transfer rate. It's not just an NMEA or Seatalk issue either. I have a 6 year old C70 Pathfinder radar. They don't support it anymore. If my antenna goes on the blink a new one for the current range of radars won't interface with it. While it's a good set, if it goes belly up I will buy Furuno next time, or perhaps Standard Horizon will have theirs available by then, I understand they have one in the pipeline....
pvb
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you're forgetting that you can't just plug a load of NMEA talkers together - the messages "crash" unless you use a multiplexer to buffer them. Most people can't cope with the complexity of wiring such kit, whereas they have no problem just daisy-chaining SeaTalk kit together with 3 wires.
Don't assume that a fault in your radome couldn't be fixed; it's not necessarily a chuckaway job. You say your radar is a "C70 Pathfinder"; C70 is one of the current generation multifunction displays, Pathfinder is the previous generation. If it's a C70, it's still very much supported.
Don't assume that a fault in your radome couldn't be fixed; it's not necessarily a chuckaway job. You say your radar is a "C70 Pathfinder"; C70 is one of the current generation multifunction displays, Pathfinder is the previous generation. If it's a C70, it's still very much supported.
Gypsy
Well-Known Member
Mike I think you are being a bit harsh against proprietary codes such as SeaTalk even though they can be very frustrating for integration if no other common protocol is provided. Most proprietary codes (in the broader electronic/software space,not just the marine area) were introduced because there was no common standard or because any common standard did not provide the speed/language/hardware to do the job. I think you will find the original SeaTalk was around before NMEA were able to agree on the 0183 standard. Standards usually lag innovation, true some companies keep their secrets longer than others but they soon have to provide interconnection.
And don't for a moment think that 0183 has all the answers. Even companies using NMEA0183 have invented their own non-standard sentences to support specific features they have or that are not covered by the standard protocol so there are still frustrating interface issues when standards are used. Another matter is the co-ordination of alarm signals across a network. Various SeaTalk instruments transmit unique alarm signals across their network which are picked up and relayed by other instruments. The receiving instruments repeat the alarm or not subject to their own functionality. To my knowledge (and I would love to be wrong on this) the only alarm sentence in NMEA is for Waypoint arrival so there is no provision for other alarm information to be passed around the network. PvB also makes a good point about the topology of the network, many (up to 18 I think) Seatalk devices can connect and listen and talk to the same network without the need for buffers or repeaters so it simplifies the wiring and interconnection considerably.
Having said all that, we are mostly talking about legacy systems. The new NMEA2000 and Seatalk2 are much closer and were developed when companies really did recognise the need for standards, however they are still far from Plug-n-Play as everyone wants to use their own cabling and connector design/choice. The more it changes the more it stays the same!
And don't for a moment think that 0183 has all the answers. Even companies using NMEA0183 have invented their own non-standard sentences to support specific features they have or that are not covered by the standard protocol so there are still frustrating interface issues when standards are used. Another matter is the co-ordination of alarm signals across a network. Various SeaTalk instruments transmit unique alarm signals across their network which are picked up and relayed by other instruments. The receiving instruments repeat the alarm or not subject to their own functionality. To my knowledge (and I would love to be wrong on this) the only alarm sentence in NMEA is for Waypoint arrival so there is no provision for other alarm information to be passed around the network. PvB also makes a good point about the topology of the network, many (up to 18 I think) Seatalk devices can connect and listen and talk to the same network without the need for buffers or repeaters so it simplifies the wiring and interconnection considerably.
Having said all that, we are mostly talking about legacy systems. The new NMEA2000 and Seatalk2 are much closer and were developed when companies really did recognise the need for standards, however they are still far from Plug-n-Play as everyone wants to use their own cabling and connector design/choice. The more it changes the more it stays the same!
