searching for a cruiser/racer

[x25dave]

Hi all, I'm sure that this will have been asked before, but, off really appreciate all advice:-
I have a budget of £10000 and want a reliable fast cruiser, more than racer. I want two cabins, with heads between, and hanging locker.
The Centaur I find too dated. Considering a JAG 27. Varne 27. Trapper 501.

I hope you can help me to make up my mind.

 

[camman]

Hi, have just advertised our cruiser/racer see link below.

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=223681

 

[Tranona]

There is just so much choice, only you can decide what is best for you. In this price/age/type bracket, condition and level of equipment are the major factors rather than getting hung up on a particular design.

 

[Seajet]

Of the boats mentioned, the Trapper 501 and Varne sound your best bet for a reasonably fast cruiser, but as Tranona says, there are quite a few options, good luck.

 

[dt4134]

You should be able to get a Hunter Impala within your budget.

I was going to say that they are still reasonably competitive racers but I checked their website http://www.impala28.co.uk/ and it seems they are being very competitive in their class in the Hamble Winter Series.

I think you'd have to rely on a quarter berth as one of your cabins, so they fall short there.

What are your other requirements? I notice you mention Scarborough, is that where you plan to sail? For me that would make me want something that could handle a bit of a blow if accidentally caught outside a tidal harbour without much shelter nearby.

Have you considered maybe an older long-keeled cruiser racer by Van der Stadt. He generally designed boats that were fast for their era, even if more modern designs would be faster. Downside is that accommodation is probably even further below your requirements that the Impala.

 

[armchairsailor]

There are one or two Nic 30s about that fall into that bracket.

 

[V1701]

You'd get a reengined Albin Vega for under your budget, one held the record for transatlantic for size, or you might get an Albin Ballad for that in the current climate. See Yachtsnet Archive for info...

 

[x25dave]

Thank you all for your opinions so far, if anyone else has any thoughts please add them.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Check the Rival 31 1970 towards the bottom, its £13500, so above your price bracket, its been for sale for a while. A lot of boat for the money.

http://www.rivalowners.org.uk/noticeboard/forsale/forsale.htm

 

[Quandary]

'Cruiser racer' is becoming a very broad term these days?

 

[x25dave]

Thanks for all your input, very helpful. I've seen a couple of Nicholson 30's for sale and like the look of them.
How do they sail please?

They are a few hundred miles away. Is there a best way to view them?
If they've got a recent survey, will it be trustworthy, or is it recommended to get my own done?

I really would appreciate your experience here please guys

Regards Dave

 

[Tranona]

Can't comment directly on the boat, but they were considered quite racy in their day.

If you have not bought a significant boat before then suggest you buy the RYA book on buying a secondhand boat as it goes through the process in great detail.

In essence you need to inspect the boat yourself as the actual can be very different from the description. You then make your offer if you like what you see, subject to survey and then commission your own. This is important as you have no comeback once you have bought the boat. Sight of an earlier survey is useful - but you cannot rely on it as it was done for somebody else.

Be prepared for a lot of frustration when trying to buy an older, lower value boat (or really any used boat) as condition will vary hugely and you will need to learn how to spot what is a potentially good buy and what is "walk away".

Good luck.

 

[dt4134]

If they've got a recent survey, will it be trustworthy, or is it recommended to get my own done?

A survey done for somebody else is worth to you exactly what you paid for it, i.e. FA. Still, have a look at it as it'll give you a few pointers, but you'll need to commission your own if you decide to buy.

I've not sailed a Nicholson 30 but they have a good reputation for seaworthiness. No doubt somebody will be along to give you a more useful answer on what they are like to sail in due course.

 

[armchairsailor]

From what I've been able to gather, the N30s were an early IOR design that was quickly replaced by Nicholson, who developed the Ron Holland-designed half tonner to replace her (eg, Grimalkin) - the production run was about 63 boats over 5 years or so. They were quick in their day (I read yesterday that one won some cup or other in the Clyde Cruising Club in 75). The trouble was that IOR designs changed so quickly during that time that they were superceded by newer designs and so quickly became "obsolete".

I've heard they are pretty well mannered boats and their little sister by the same designer (Raymond Wall) - the CS27 - is well respected in the Pacific NW. They're well set up for short ahdned sailing, with the mast track by the tiller and a cost cockpit. Dunno about headroom - 5'11" rings a bell. To my eye, it's a rather ugly, 70's style futuristic coachroof, but I'm sure it's quite a strong shape, being domed.

Two competed in the Cowes Wk RTIR this year, to my knowledge, so they are still being competed. Others are restoring them (google Jananda) so they must be worth it.

But then I'm a bit of a fan, and I have my eye on one...

 

[Seajet]

A perceived snag with early IOR boats is the wide beam; this became rather unpopular after the 1979 Fastnet disaster, when wide beamed boats were said to stay inverted - relatively low ballast ratios and light keels were no doubt involved too...it can also lead to broaching and overpowering the rudder, especially if it's blanketted by a deep skeg, ask me how I found that one out ( Carter 30 ) !

An example of the thinking of the time was the Anderson 26, designed as a result of the 1979 Fastnet accident report's findings - and a survey among Anderson 22 owners asking " what would you look for in a step larger size boat ? " - resulting in a relatively narrow hull, which had to have a high coachroof to accomodate the necessary deep lift keel to make up for the loss of form stability.

Personally I'm quite keen on having form stability, AND a good heavy keel !

 

[armchairsailor]

They got worse as they got older - the Nic doesn't suffer unduly from the worst vagaries of that particular era of yacht design, but I take your point. But then, how often will you be hooning along with the kite up in an F6 in your first couple of years of ownership?

 

[rob2]

From your original list I can comment on two. I used to crew on a Trapper 500 for the cross channel races from Poole Yacht Club. It's a robust design with reasonable accomodation for four or five and the hull form makes it go well even in a chop as there is no flat area to slam.

Similarly, the Varne is a good sea boat and sails well under adverse conditions. Internal fit out can be variable, but they are old enough that many will have been modified and refurbished along the way. Slightly less accomodation than the Trapper if memory serves. Early boats had a single berth to starboard for'ard opposite the heads and sail storage in the forepeak. That berth is at shoulder level for me and I'm no longer nimble enough to hop up! More conventional layout became more popular later on, with twin v berths in the forepeak and hanging locker opposite the heads. I own a Weston 8500, which is a later version of the Varne and unashamedly more luxurious in its joinery. The layout suggest a five berth, although for more than a weekend I'd suggest three. Examples can be seen here: http://www.varne.co.uk/

There is no easy way to view a boat other than trecking up to its location. I've seen boats described as "the best example.." which were scruffy and in need of much TLC with aged and suspect equipment. I've also seen boats described as in need of TLC which really only needed a good clean! It helps if the seller has posted good recent photos of the boat, both inside and out. I can email some photos of my Weston if that would help.

Rob.

 

[rudolph_hart]

Thanks for all your input, very helpful. I've seen a couple of Nicholson 30's for sale and like the look of them.
How do they sail please?

They are a few hundred miles away. Is there a best way to view them?
If they've got a recent survey, will it be trustworthy, or is it recommended to get my own done?

I really would appreciate your experience here please guys

Regards Dave

The Nich 30 with masthead rig & transom-hung rudder is a tough boat and pretty fast. To windward in a good breeze they are very impressive. Friend of mine had one and we raced against her for several years. Might be over your budget, though.