Seahorses on Radio 4

[Duffer]

There was an extended discussion about seahorses in the UK (and elsewhere) on Saving Species this morning. I think it will be repeated on Thursday at 9 pm or go to the iPlayer now:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b016wxv5/Saving_Species_Series_2_Episode_25/

The spokesman from the Seahorse Trust was more conciliatory to boat users in Studland than I have previously heard and backed a new type of mooring which doesn't use a ground chain. If it works it sounds eminently sensible.

I was in the Helford earlier in the year and saw a catamaran anchored in the eel grass area west of Durgan. Minutes after leaving it was dismasted. Do seahorses have teeth?

 

[deep denial]

No it is not eminently sensible as it does not allow you to lie to your own hook, and would mean being turned away if all the moorings were taken.
As there is no evidence whatsoever that the seahorses, which are thriving, derive anything but benefit from yacht anchoring, no concession whatsoever should be made to brainless bullies. Any concession is an unwarranted restriction on freedom.

 

[prv]

As there is no evidence whatsoever that the seahorses, which are thriving, derive anything but benefit from yacht anchoring, no concession whatsoever should be made to brainless bullies. Any concession is an unwarranted restriction on freedom.

What he said, albeit slightly less ferociously

Pete

 

[Duffer]

No it is not eminently sensible as it does not allow you to lie to your own hook, and would mean being turned away if all the moorings were taken.
As there is no evidence whatsoever that the seahorses, which are thriving, derive anything but benefit from yacht anchoring, no concession whatsoever should be made to brainless bullies. Any concession is an unwarranted restriction on freedom.

It's a long time since I anchored at Studland so I don't pretend to be an expert on the situation there but I thought the proposal was that only part of the bay should be a no-anchor zone. You could presumably raft up on the visitors moorings but I accept that they could become full.

According to the programme the numbers of seahorses there have fallen from 40 last year to 11 this which is not my definition of thriving.

It must be possible to come to some amicable compromise between boat users and the Great British public which thinks seahorses are cute, endangered and deserving of protection (unlike boat owners!)

 

[prv]

According to the programme the numbers of seahorses there have fallen from 40 last year to 11 this

Who counts them?

Pete

 

[Paul_G]

Who counts them?

Pete

according to him from the seahorse lovers, the divers check on them three times a week. The little seahorses are tagged and they know them by name so they can check up on who's at home and who has gone off for a jolly.

Notice of course that the continual diving and having a tag strapped on does not affect the little darlings at all

 

[Boathook]

It's a long time since I anchored at Studland so I don't pretend to be an expert on the situation there but I thought the proposal was that only part of the bay should be a no-anchor zone. You could presumably raft up on the visitors moorings but I accept that they could become full.

According to the programme the numbers of seahorses there have fallen from 40 last year to 11 this which is not my definition of thriving.

It must be possible to come to some amicable compromise between boat users and the Great British public which thinks seahorses are cute, endangered and deserving of protection (unlike boat owners!)

The numbers only started to fall once the beeb had done a few programmes on them. Until then possibly only a few knew.

 

[oldharry]

Missed the programme so cant connect to what they said, but situation in Studland at present is:

1. The Bay has been designated as a 'Proposed MCZ' with 'recovery' as a the conservation objective.
2. Four species have been identified for conservation, the main one being the eelgras bed itself as an important habitat for a range of species including three protected under the Wildlife Act, which includes seahorses, Undulate Rays (which eat seahorses), and the native British Oyster.
3. How the conservation objectives will be acheived is currently under discussion by Natural England and the Science Advisory panel. Various possibilites exist which range from a total ban on boats except for 'reasons of safe navigation' (also not yet defined), installation of EFM type moorings (estimated to cost £150k for 50) with or without the possibility of anchoring as well. Anchoring permitted but with compulsory or voluntary NAZ's to protect the most sensitive areas, or voluntary arrangements in which we are asked to avoid anchoring in sensitive areas which would be marked.

There are questions about the suitability of EFMs for Studlands particular conditions.

At the moment everything other than the MCZ recommendation is still 'awaiting decisions' which will not appear until next year.

Seahorse Trust have told me that the reduction in numbers this year is nothing to do with the anchoring issue, and is thought to be the result of the unusual weather patterns. Many other marine species have not appeared in their usual numbers this year either. Speculation continues about nocturnal diving actvities after which no Seahorses were seen for several weeks though it is known the UKBA took an interest in the reports as well...

 

[Twister_Ken]

installation of EFM type moorings (estimated to cost £150k for 50)

£3K a pop! Are they 18 or 24 carat gold?

 

[Rigger Mortice]

According to the programme the numbers of seahorses there have fallen from 40 last year to 11

Sounds like a classic case of shutting the stable door after the little horses have bolted.

 

[oldharry]

£3K a pop! Are they 18 or 24 carat gold?

No, £2k for the ground tackle to hold < 45 footer, and 1k for equipment, mooring barge and labour, including divers and their support. Note that this includes £10k for the special hydraulic winder required to install them. Delivery costs from America are not included....

This all assumes the bay is suitable for them.... There are considerably cheaper options, but these are the tyoe being specified by Natural England

 

[simon barefoot]

40 seahorses down to 11?
Ahem, loads more than that, I've got about 50 in holding tanks right now, they're selling like hot cakes now that they're famous!!!!!!

 

[oldharry]

Sea Horse Trust

Neil Garrick-Maidment of SHT's comment on radio today supports exactly what he had said to me earlier in the summer, when I discussed the whole Studland issue with him, so now he has 'gone public' I can confirm that he is quite clear he does not now want to see the Bay closed. What he wants is to see anchor damage reduced to a minimum to allow the Eelgrass to 'recover'. This is in line with the Finding Sanctuary recommendation for 'recovery' . The issue is whether or not anchoring will be permitted when ther moorings are full. Both he and Nat England believe that 30 - 50 EFMs would reduce the level of anchoring to a 'sustainable level.

Some south coasters prefer to pick up a mooring rather than rely on uncertain holding on their own groud tackle. Its those of us (me included) who DO prefer to lie to our own, known, ground tackle who are now concerned - plus anyone who turns up after the moorings are all taken up on a busy day. The indications are that this 'could' be acceptable, but we will not know until after several more meetings...

 

[VicMallows]

Both he and Nat England believe that 30 - 50 EFMs would reduce the level of anchoring to a 'sustainable level.

What is the story on charging for these please? .. I'm sure it's been discussed elsewhere but I haven't had time to wade through and keep up to date.

Its those of us (me included) who DO prefer to lie to our own, known, ground tackle who are now concerned

Very much so.

Vic

 

[oldharry]

Charging: nothing at present Vic. The first thing is to find some mug - er organisation to take it on. That is if Studland does become an MCZ. John Benyon and DEFRA are saying very clearly that not all recommended areas will become MCZs. Benyon undertook in the House a couple of weeks ago that he would be looking at each individual case. He is I am told, already aware there are specific issues round Studland. Assuming he does go ahead, then we still have to decide what level of 'protection' the MCZ will need to acheive objectives. THEN, and only then can we know for certain what restrictions we may be landed with.

As I said, its several meetings down the road - rather a lot I think! Yaaaaawn.

At least things are looking a bit less gloomy now.

 

[VicMallows]

Charging: nothing at present Vic.

Didn't express myself very well. My concern is that IF such a proposal (50 + seaanchors) were ever to be implemented, who would administer them? Quite clearly SOMEONE would have to pay for them, and that SOMEONE at the very least would have to break even. I am sure that the Banks Arms find it worth their while to provide the existing moorings ...but I very much doubt they would be interested in funding this proposed project. So we WOULD be talking charges.

If anchoring is prohibited, or restricted to untenable/grossly inconvenient areas that means goodbye Studland for quite a few of us.

Vic

 

[Bobobolinsky]

The fact that there are only 11 seahorses left in the area is a little worrying to me to so the The Seahorse Trust is trying to persuade the "Authorities" to put in the moorings. £150K to protect 11 seahorses. Maybe that should be Guineas. A hungry ray could hoover those up in a day

 

[glashen]

Charging: nothing at present Vic. The first thing is to find some mug - er organisation to take it on. That is if Studland does become an MCZ. John Benyon and DEFRA are saying very clearly that not all recommended areas will become MCZs. Benyon undertook in the House a couple of weeks ago that he would be looking at each individual case. He is I am told, already aware there are specific issues round Studland. Assuming he does go ahead, then we still have to decide what level of 'protection' the MCZ will need to acheive objectives. THEN, and only then can we know for certain what restrictions we may be landed with.

As I said, its several meetings down the road - rather a lot I think! Yaaaaawn.

At least things are looking a bit less gloomy now.

I think a lot of thanks need to go to BORG, the RYA and individuals who have made sure certain environmentalists have not had everything their own way, we could now be looking at a far worse situation.

I think the ideal would be a number of EFMs combined with marked voluntary no anchor zones, but with at least some good anchoring areas available to those who wish to use them. Remember it isn't really in anyones interest to anchor in the eelgrass since you are very likely to drag. On the subject of paying for the EFMs I suspect some of the funding will be lottery or similar, after all if the area really is as important as claimed, what is £150K to preserve it? No doubt there will be mooring charges but as long as they are sensible say £10 per night I think we should accept them.

One point not surprisingly given the emphasis by the Sea Horse Trust many posts have concentrated on the sea horses but the real issue is the eelgrass, Studland is an important site and globally eelgrass is under threat, many of us have never been against proper sensible conservation that permits those of us who love places such as Studland to enjoy them whilst protecting the ecology.

 

[KristiferColumbus]

I don't believe globally eelgrass is under threat having seen the way it spread in Portsmouth Harbour a few years ago & I shan't be paying £10 to stay there either.I would rather take my chances entering Pool Harbour or going elsewhere.This creeping commercialization is what I sail to get away from.
Talk of eco friendly mooring buoys is just the thin end of the wedge.

 

[Robin]

If you have visitor moorings and collect a fee, who will do the collection and at what salary? Will this collector person be paid regardless of the moorings being in use, because there are loads of occasions when the bay is untenable due for example to prolonged spells of easterly winds. So now you have to divide a collector's salary, the costs of providing and maintaining the means of getting out to collect, ie a launch of some kind, somewhere safe from vandals to keep this, insurances, plus some weather gear and lifejackets etc amongst the number of moorings in use. I suspect the cost per mooring per night might be rather more than a token few quid.