Seahawk down

[Risa]

here is this weeks brain teaser.

1988 Westerly seahawk. Bilge keel. 2003 28hp Volvo.

Water in bilges - sometimes -
Mostly couple of sponges full. occasionally 5 buckets full in 2 hours.
Keel bolts dont leak
Engine coolant level unchanged.
Raw water no signs of leakage.
Had food dye in water tank. overridden pressure switch no leak.
Not leaked all winter when on hard.
no leak when on drying mooring
have motored at 3000rpm with floor boards up and men with torches - nothing.

Salcome to N north wales 3 buckets in 3 weeks
2 hours in a choppy Irish sea 5 bucketfulls
Not even a drop this weekend.


Answers on a postcard please.

The winner will have my eternal gratitude.



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[daveheaddon]

Are you CERTAIN the keelbolts don't leak? Is it possible that they leak only when not under compression? Ie, when in choppy seas or up and down on a drying mooring?

Otherwise my Seamaster had me baffled for months until I spotted that one of the windows leaked when the boat was over on one 'lean' on the drying mooring.

Slightly leaky outlet near the waterline?

Finally....and you'll hate this....have you tried tasting it? If the bilges are clean (there must be ONE boat out there with clean bilges) you could try to see if it's salt or fresh. That might alt least narrow it down?

Good luck!

Dave


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[woolly]

Was it raining?

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[Birdseye]

you have my sympathy - i have a wet patch that appears in the middle of a piece of carpet in one hull, with no watercoming from above and none from below. i reckon its the ghost of the previous owner, wetting himself at my sailing antics.

anyway, try the taste test since that will eliminate or otherwise, the water tanks.

what you describe sounds like something "working". the obvious ones to suspect are the westerley keel bolts, but you also need to check stern tube/seal and sea cocks. i made the mistake of only turning the blakes seacocks through 90 deg to turn off and you need to turn further. so i got a leak back through the bilge pumps.

try surrounding the area it collects in with a sprinkling of talcum powder since that will show you the direction in which the water is coming.

if none of this helps, then make an exhaustive list of everything that passes through the grp (and I mean everything) and systematically eliminate them

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Is your mast up on the hard, could water be running down the mast, water comes over hits mast flows into cabin, only does it when boat is upright, hence you did not have problem on drying mooring.

a real stab in the dark but you asked for guesses. In heavy rain water runs off my mast with quite a little river, sometimes flowing down the sides of the cabin door, could be culprit.


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[johnwest]

Could it possibly be the drain from the pressure relief valve on the calorifier ?
Or drain to the chain locker blocked and water slopping into the forepeak.
Which part of the bilges ?

John

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[snowleopard]

last time i heard of a mystery leak like this it was via the hawse pipe. they found it suddenly became very bad in a head sea.

the most vital question is fresh or salt?

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[bob26]

I knew a boat which nearly sank once - owner went below on a night passsage and found water above floor. Heaved to and pumped dry but couldn't find any leak at all. So continued - only to find boat full again some time later. Heaved to, pumped, no leak. Finally worked out that when heeled over the bilge pump exit was below water and siphoning water in. Every time he pumped out (upright) all signs of leak disappeared. So you need to think about skin fittings above waterline too.

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[quaelgeist2]

Fresh or Salt water ? ...you need only to check your wet finger - hasn't killed me over years of testing ;-)
If fresh...
- rainwater from keel-stepped mast
- rainwater from windows or hatches
If salt...
- keel bolts under load
- windows leaking under load as hull flexes
- hull/deck joint developing a leak under load
- anchor locker, water worikng in and finding its way behind the inner lining

good luck!

FYI It took me ages to find a leak of my (transom hung) rudder fixing bolts, as the water seeped through the bilges and gatehred right at the keel bolt area which had some porous surface - they only leaked under high load, nothing for weeks in the harbours or with little load!!!

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[mldpt]

I Have the same problem with my Corsair, and have had for 10 years, at first I assumed it was draining from the chain locker so was not too worried, but a few years ago I blocked the hole in the bottom of the chain locked and put in a drain through the hull, still water in the bilge, I have put bottles on the presure valve in the hot water tank, and also on the fridge drain, in my case it is rarly more than a few sponge fulls but never realy increases past a ceertain level I have isolated both my fresh water tanks to make sure its not a leak in a tank, I have noticed a slight weep from my forward heads outlet seacock so have tighened that up still some water in the bilgeI have even isolated the different sections of the bilge by blocking the pipe from one to the other, It still seems to collect in the deapest part, I will have to check the electric bilge outlet, possibly water is comeing back up that when heeled over. It is of course possible that its coming in through the keel bolts, but if so why doesnt it continue to rise.
Mike. www.sailingforfun.co.uk

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[tome]

Agree with this suggestion

We had a problem with water leaking, it only happened on a starboard tack and it turned out to be the bilge pump outlet which was siphoning back. Took a lot of head scratching before we realised. Now fitted a valve to this and the sink outlet, both of which I turn off before going to sea and the problem has gone. If I do need to pump, I make sure she's upright and when finished I close the valve again.

Regards
Tom

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[extravert]

I had a leak that took 2 years to locate, and then was only found by accident.

One of my pulpit legs had a hollow stud on the bottom, all the others being solid. This hollow one was for the navigation light cable to pass down. The stud had cracked and was leaking water (salt and rain) inside the hull where it was running down the back of the headlining panel unseen and into the bilge. I only found it when I was replacing a cable connector.

My case was a pulpit base, but it could have been any of the stanchion or pushpit bases as well.

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[Andy_H]

I used to have a Centaur with the same problem. It turned out to be the port side keel which leaked when under load (ie on starboard tack in breezy conditions). Eventually I had to have the keels re-bedded which solved the problem. Have you noticed whether you get the leaks only when it's breezy?

If the water in the bilges is salt, this could well be the problem

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[Sybarite]

When I have fully filled my water tank, I notice sometimes when heeled to starboard that water syphons out of the tap in the heads and from there to the floor.

John

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[smee]

I had this problem with an MG Spring. Got quite paranoid about it, until I realised it was the stern gland dripping. No problem if greaser turned every trip to the boat. But if not, puddles in the bilges!! - and surprising how much could come in!

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[Risa]

Well that generated a discussion. Many thanks for taking the time.

In summary all boats leak the interesting bit is why?
First test I did was to taste it. Inconclusive. Not as salty as the sea but not as fresh as the tank.

Keelbolts would always let in water especially if on a drying mooring?? there is NO staining around teh bolts there is no damage to teh original westerly bilge coating (a point which impressed my surveyor)

In N wales its always raining and when its not its going to. Ther is absolutely / categotically no rainwater leaking through hatches/ windows. Ive got a pannelled cabin lining and there is no indication/ damp behind it.

Chain locker drains out of bow skin fittings no access to bilge from there

Deck/hull joint - ???- burying the nose F6 Bristol channel last year - nothing- of any great significance anyway- maybe a cupfull

Deckfittings hard to believe volume in time but ill check with a hose pipe and torch

Next step.

Ive already isolated each compartment to home in on the area (but I did this last season for 2 months and didnt get a leak- Maybe that s the answer!

Pressure relief valve- engine running - water getting hot -- this is a current favorite.

Bilge pump syphoning - poss NRV not operating. pump is a good 1m above outlet worth a look but difficult to comprehend.

Many thanks again for your Time Ill update you on results as/if they arise.

Have a good season- it wont spoil mine
Regards
Risa




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[andy_wilson]

A few leaks I have known.

Coachroof / deck fittings / hull-deck join, in each case running behind roof and or side linings, behind lockers and appearing like magic in the bilges. My winch handle pockets leaked behind the engine sound insulation.

Likewise mast and other cables entering deck. Gland leaks can manifest miles from where the culprit fitting is.

Cool box drain shows a few litres every hot weekend when you buy bagged ice, but 'leak' increases rapidly when you give the ice box a good sluice out.

Drip from stern tube fitting.

Sink drain. Could be grey water from within or sea water from without.

Pressure relief on accumulator tank (accompanied by annoying cycling in the middle of the night when no-one has been up for a drink for hours.

Try blocking up the limber holes in the bilge to narrow down the source of the leak.

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[Risa]

Many thanks to all who forwarded suggestions.

Answer is in 2 parts-
1. Loose P bracket. Water seeps in slowly and collects under water tank - as boat heels sloshes over stringers into next compartment then the next etc.. (Barry from TLC at Conway has made an excellent job of reseating and strengthening so tha problem sorted.)

2. On the seahawk there are 2 large bins on the transom - one leaks. just a small insignificant drip which over time leads to significant puddle. Again collecting under water tank - distributed as above.

Looks like Ill have dry feet this next season.

Regards

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