Seadog 30 and Countess 33 ketch comments invited

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SmileyGiley

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Greetings all,

My last post was all about the merits of sadlers and moodys. Alas, I then found that our muddy creek will allow max 30ft vessels. Fair enough, but this precludes the Moody 31BKs we were looking at (streeeeetch that budget) or the Sadler 32BK I fancied.

Then I saw the Freeman Seadog ketches. Hmmm, there seems to be some benefits here.

30ft is our muddy creek max, a Seadog is...30ft.

Centre cockpit reasonably deep & protected? good for keeping warm and for youngsters.

Triple keel - will allow drying out in aforementioned muddy creek.

Ketch rig - more flexible for aged parent to handle (sorry Mum).

Aft cabin - bit of privacy available for cruising with extended family.

We are also looking at a rather bedraggled Countess 33 ketch - this means we say adieu to our muddy creek after four generations and base ourselves permanently at Conwy, but the Snowdonia backdrop and the interesting nature of sailing round Angelsey is some compensation. The numerous posts on C33s and the Countess owners website have piqued our interest.

Any comments on the Seadog, or the Countess for that matter? The hull shape of the former looks like it might pitch in a chop, but that may be an Hoptical Hillusion.The specific example of the latter is rather tatty, but we're only interested if the price allows for a fairly extensive degree of updating.

Re - the latest headlines in YBW - I worked with Sam Manuard on a shallow water seismic survey offshore Nigeria twelve or so years ago - just before he quit to build himself a mini transat. Pipe dream thought I.... how wrong I was. Hats off to him.

Cheers all
SmileyG
 
We looked at both. The Seadog is a good heavy old thing that would take you through anything and back out the otherside without spilling your G&T. But, accomodation quite cramped compared to the Countess, and not the quickest boat around.

The countess has much more accomodation space, is quicker to sail, and is still built very strongly. I would compare the build to a Westerly / Moody for quality of lay-up etc. Still amazingly strong and capable, but not as 'bullet proof' as the Seadog.

We got a Countess 37 in the end - we love her to pieces and have confidence she would take us through anything.

The only point I would have against a Countess is that many were home completed - so you need to be careful to get a good one. Its the old problem - some home completed boats are a bit botched and not very good - some are better than any yard could ever produce as years and years have been put into them. Ours is, IMHO, a cracker but then I think we were lucky to find one fitted out to such a high standard. If the one your looking at isn't very well done, make sure you budget for re-wiring, re-plumbing, etc etc, as often if one area has been bodged its a sure sign other areas may have been too. That said, without the AWB 'instruction manual', you quickly learn for yourself where everything is and how it works with a home completed boat which is nice to know when you need it.

Good luck with your hunt!

Jonny
 
Have to be careful how I say this...... What are your priorities? The Seadog is heavily built and fairly indestructable and will indeed dry out in a muddy creek OK. The big engine (for the size of boat) makes it a good cruiser under engine, but if you want to make way to windward you will need to use it. The sailing performance is not exciting.....
There, that was relatively PC wasn't it?
 
Jonny - I had already checked out your posts. Made me want to look larger again, but as we don't plan to live aboard or sail round the world (round Angelsey is more like it) keeping it cheap is more important.

Boatmike - very gentle indeed. Jives with Jonny's comment about speed too. I'm not into racing or anything, but a decent speed it handy for cruising too.

Will have to discuss the Seadog with the extended family. The muddy creek option has numerous benefits, but more and more I'm being tempted by the space that the Countess 33 has to offer. I also like the walkthrough/pilot berth. I can reasonably occupy this end of the boat with wife, toddler and impending new addition whilst leaving the forepeak to my Mum or my brother and his partner whenever they come, with the saloon free for whomever is on watch or up with a bevvy etc.
 
I can\'t comment on the C33...

but I did have a Seadog for a season.

As others have said, she is a bullet-proof, confidence inspiring design. Of the embarrassing number of boats I've owned, she would probably be the one I'd choose if the weather was going to get very serious indeed (we've also had a Westerly 33 and Moody 33).

She gave us no cause for concern in a very full gale along the south coast some years ago. In fact, we overtook a fully crewed half tonner to windward that day (their crew sitting on the windward rail, as we beat round Dungeness for Sovereign Harbour. ok, I admit it, we were very cosy under the spray hood, under mizzen only, with the Perkins doing the hard work, whilst they were doing it properly).

She certainly needs a good breeze to get a bone in her teeth, but, if you're in no hurry, she will sail nicely eg happy memories beating up through the moorings at Hullbridge in light airs, to dry out for the night by the pub at Battlesbridge.

So, a steady, comfortable, if unexciting boat, that, in one season took two of us from Harwich to Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Isle of Man without incident or hassle.

We sold her to buy a beautiful wooden gaff cutter.
 
Re: I can\'t comment on the C33...

Neal....

I'm selling a beautiful (well, cute maybe) gaff cutter (tears, woe and sadness) to buy the larger model... but kidz, aging Mum and brother & his partner becoming more interested in sailing... 24ft sitting headroom just doesn't cut it.

Cheers

Giles
 
a westerly discus might be an option for you, it has a decent aft cabin and loads of room in the saloon,(not for the muddy creek though), although it would depend on how much you would be willing to spend as they are quite stable in the price required, or how about a colvic countess 28 they have a decent size saloon and forepeak. as most colvics very solidly built, and some home built.
It all depends on the sort of money you are looking on spending, if you are after a cheap boat then you would be looking on quite a big expense account to be able to fit it out, as most marine items dont come cheap.
Do you have any type of boat at the moment, if not then you are best to get a high volume model which if you don't like after a couple of years then you would be able to get rid of in a short period of time and not be stuck with a pig, as there are many of them lying around in many a boatyard and slowly the owner loses interest and the boat becomes a lost cause.
 
I've got a Seadog and I rate it, but the accommodation would be a compromise for the number of people you are talking about - there is only three of us. The aft cabin is a large double or a small double and a single, the saloon is three singles or could be a double and two singles. The cockpit is deep and safe and with a full canopy gives extra space but not really suitable for sleeping.
 
Generally not all at once, no, but there are a fair mix of us around though. Certainly the Countess has a much greater ability to accommodate, the benefits of the Seadog are that we can continue utilizing the muddy creek for part of the year sailing, laying up and the fact the the people there are (well, sometimes) some of the most pleasant and helpful I have encountered. Plus the muddy creek has dunlin, heron, oystercatchers, mallards, shellduck etc in spades, and I rather like it.

The Seadog would allow us continue sailing in the manner we have become used to in Eider Duck, just accommodating the kid(s) also whilst young. The Countess would allow larger jaunts for more of us, with a private corner for everyone (certainly while the kid(s) are little).

I feel myself getting pulled to the larger boat...
 
Can only comment on the Countess 33 as I've close friends who have had one for many years. The only really serious downside they have experienced is very bad osmosis, and by bad I mean blisters up to 38mm across and loads of 'em!!

OK, the boat has been in the water almost permanently for the last few years so I suppose it's to be expected to some degree, but that level still seem very excessive to me.

Obviously you'll get a thorough survey carried prior to buying so anything like this will be picked up by the surveyor.

Aside from that, and although it wouldn't be my choice, it suits my friends very well, sailing reasonably well and pretty comfortable in a bit of a blow. Theirs was professionally finished though and has stood up well over the years while a couple of others I've been aboard have had a dreadful amateur interior.
 
Thanks for all the feedback. Tony Kerry over at the Countess owners website has been extremely helpful also, so I'd like to thank him here and also to recommend that anyone contemplating any of the Countess range contacts him for excellent advice.

Cheers

SmileyG
 
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