Seacock Question

LONG_KEELER

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I have two toilet seacocks that are frozen for the toilet. They are coned and very similar to Blakes.

I am trying varying methods of trying to free them but it looks as if I will have to remove them from the boat.
Underneath the hull, I cannot see a backing plate or stud ends . Is it possible that the studs have been glassed into the hull ? Or is there some other method of doing this ? Perhaps studs threaded into the fibreglass ?

Any thoughts would be welcome.
 

tillergirl

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Umm, that's interesting. TG has a pair of Simpson-Lawrence seacocks (inlet/outlet) which are 'Blakes' style. There is no plate on the outside and being timber, the bolts - they must be bolts not studs - are countersunk and hidden. Externally I can see a 'pipe' flush to the timber. But if yours is a S-L it would say on the handle.
 

LONG_KEELER

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Umm, that's interesting. TG has a pair of Simpson-Lawrence seacocks (inlet/outlet) which are 'Blakes' style. There is no plate on the outside and being timber, the bolts - they must be bolts not studs - are countersunk and hidden. Externally I can see a 'pipe' flush to the timber. But if yours is a S-L it would say on the handle.

Thanks TG.

Can't see a name so definitely bootleg Blakes or SL .

The things last so long when maintained that I expect to find them bedded with Sealastic or sizel.
Bit reluctant to dive in and start spannering . The case for the missing studs and back plate continues.
 

doug748

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I have two toilet seacocks that are frozen for the toilet. They are coned and very similar to Blakes.

I am trying varying methods of trying to free them but it looks as if I will have to remove them from the boat.
Underneath the hull, I cannot see a backing plate or stud ends . Is it possible that the studs have been glassed into the hull ? Or is there some other method of doing this ? Perhaps studs threaded into the fibreglass ?

Any thoughts would be welcome.




A number of manufacturers preferred to countersink the hull bolts, for a smoother hull. You can see the general method about half way down this blog page:

https://sailingsamourai.com/2017/12/04/november-2017/

If you get some penetrating oil on for 24 hours, give them a blast of heat and then a good wallop with a lump hammer, you may save a lot of fussing.
 

vyv_cox

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A number of manufacturers preferred to countersink the hull bolts, for a smoother hull. You can see the general method about half way down this blog page:

https://sailingsamourai.com/2017/12/04/november-2017/

If you get some penetrating oil on for 24 hours, give them a blast of heat and then a good wallop with a lump hammer, you may save a lot of fussing.

I agree with all that (although I have not looked at the link). The seacocks on my Sadler are attached with countersunk stainless steel bolts, not visible from outside the hull. The P-bracket is attached the same way, see on my website.

1.5 inch plug type seacocks can be surprisingly difficult to release. A 2 lb hammer minimum and a metal drift has always done the job for me. Leave the nuts loosely on the yoke plate to prevent the cone from flying across the boat when it releases. You may need to hit quite hard.
 

LONG_KEELER

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Awesome responses as usual . Many Thanks.

Will try a little more patience and penetrating oil for a few days . Perhaps also a bigger hammer .

Will report back.
 

LONG_KEELER

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UPDATE FROM OP
=====================

I'm still struggling and running out of ideas.

Just to recall that I have two Blakes seacocks 3/4" and 1.5" that are frozen on a new to me boat.
There are no seacock brackets on the outside of the hull and all studs are glassed and recessed into the hull from the outside.

I have temporarily plugged the holes and filled them up with diesel for a number of days to soak. I have tried drifting them
out with as much force as I dare , but no go. I have also been soaking them from the inside with Plus Gas each day.

I could try loosening the stud nuts from inside the boat and try to slide the seacock out. It may well be that when the seacocks were glassed in some material may have stuck to the body of the seacocks. I have also tried heat.

At least they are frozen open so I could leave them as they are . I've have had boats with cockpit drains below the water line where I have left open but regularly opened and closed..

Alternatively I could cut them out and re glass the hull but I don't fancy doing that.

It would be nice to employ say a prop puller and drift at the same time but that does not seem possible.

Any more ideas I could try ?

Thanks
 
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vyv_cox

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Just a thought, never needed to try it. The cause of seizure on my seacocks has always been carbonate salts between the male and female cones. Now that you have made plugs that will hold liquid you could try substituting hydrochloric acid for the diesel (which I cannot see doing anything anyway). The acid will react with the salts quite quickly, although it may take some time to get in there, particularly after diesel has coated everything. Dilute acid will not react with the bronze/DZR, nor with any fastenings.
 

Kukri

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Just a thought, never needed to try it. The cause of seizure on my seacocks has always been carbonate salts between the male and female cones. Now that you have made plugs that will hold liquid you could try substituting hydrochloric acid for the diesel (which I cannot see doing anything anyway). The acid will react with the salts quite quickly, although it may take some time to get in there, particularly after diesel has coated everything. Dilute acid will not react with the bronze/DZR, nor with any fastenings.

Vyv's idea seems excellent but have you tried playing a hot air gun on the body with a fresh water hose poked into the seacock from outboard? Worked for me (with a 7lbs club hammer and a drift).
 

sailorman

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Umm, that's interesting. TG has a pair of Simpson-Lawrence seacocks (inlet/outlet) which are 'Blakes' style. There is no plate on the outside and being timber, the bolts - they must be bolts not studs - are countersunk and hidden. Externally I can see a 'pipe' flush to the timber. But if yours is a S-L it would say on the handle.

My Co32 had Blakes but no outer ring, the bolt mushroom heads were countersunk into the GRP
 

QBhoy

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Spray white grease up into them from outside the hull...then take the handle off them inside and see if you can gently work them using the spigot there, with a spanner or shifter.
 

crown22

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I shifted my seized Blakes outlet cone by heating it with a hot air gun for about twenty minutes and then pouring cold water on it and then rushing outside and hitting it with a wooden stick.The inlet didn't respond to this treatment so I put a moveable spanner on it and hit the spanner next to the cone and that shifted it.I have filled the cones with white spirit to try to reveal any cracking caused by the hammering but there doesn't seem to be a problem.You might not be out of the woods when you get them out.My hull fittings have internal vertical scoring alongside the screw holes on the side,Lapping has hardly touched the scoring so I am hoping that the grease provides a good enough seal when the boat goes back in the water next month.on my Colvic Sailer 26 the external bolt heads seem to be underneath the grp so not an easy job to replace I imagine.
 

LONG_KEELER

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Feedback from IP
===============

Still struggling unfortunately.

However, my little dentists mirror does reveal that the pipework is getting cleaner all the time.

Looking around, this appears to be a big problem in industry. Grease is primarily made from two ingredients, base oil and a thickener. Over time, the base oil sweats out leaving thickener which hardens. It also gets contaminated by bearing debris etc. It makes you wonder if the Blakes seacock grease perhaps takes this into consideration.

If the old grease is not cleaned out first , then the new grease added just gets pushed out leaving the old stuff grinding away causing wear . So if you sail past a windmill and hear grinding , do the decent and give them a ring.

On the plus side, Blakes type seacocks stand a chance of coming out because of the taper with a whack to overcome the solidified grease. On the negative side, the old grease remains hidden from human attack.

Having tried most solvents , and as much force with a drift as I dare, I'm going to try more heat which may expand the metal to perhaps break the seal. Up till now I have only used a heat gun from one side.
 
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LONG_KEELER

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==============

Deep joy. If there is such a thing as a sailing orgasm I had two this morning when the Blakes seacocks toilet cones drifted out.

I purchased a much better heat gun with three settings and applied serious heat from inside the boat. Hot enough to produce sizzling with a few flicks of water applied. These seacocks had both the bodies and studs glassed into the hull .

I used tin snips and cut up a biscuit tin, plus tin foil to protect the fibreglass surround. I also purchased a 2.5lb lump hammer without having to apply too much power with the largest metal drift that would fit.

So thanks everyone. We all get there in the end don't we ?
 
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