Sea Hopper, Mirror, patio, Wife and the summer.

[Mirror Painter]

I hope you may be able to assist with a few questions, all of which are very basic and I'm sure all asked before. Please be gentle.


Background.

* Last year I took level one and two of the RYA course - i.e. I know next to nothing. Also the VHF radio course but I probably won't need that for a while...

* This year I shall join one of two local sailing clubs but the likely one offers a discount commensurate with joining month - so I'll probably not join until after spring. Hence can't ask daft questions locally.

* I have a wooden Mirror dinghy which a friend very kindly gave me. He built it some decades ago and did a good job but now it needs some work. I was grateful of the gift and feel a certain responsibility to tidy the Mirror up and so intend to get stuck in to the work in the spring, but equally expect the boat to remain on the patio for most of this year. My wife is not pleased that we have a boat on the patio. There is no rear access to this house, (extended to the boundary), and the Mirror was lifted over a neighbour's hedge. I need time to do my best job of restoration before moving her (boat not wife) to whichever sailing club I join.

* There is a trailer for the Mirror which I have disassembled and is now split between the back garden and a front store thing. We have ample room for a trailer on the drive without it getting in the way of our cars but my wife does not want a trailer on the drive. My wife is an amazing creature who provides about 10% of the tribulation that a wife is supposed to administer. It is markedly unusual for her to strongly say she doesn't want me to do something so I am smart enough to respect the no trailer request. Anyway I drive a company car and the current job (which I hope to have for years) does not make it easy to have a tow bar.

* I have looked at Sea Hopper boats and they appear to offer a perfect, roof rack transported route to sailing dingy owner ship. N.B. I really can't see me racing at the local club and if I'm wrong and later realise I need a Pico or similar I'll worry about that later.



Questions

1. It's quite easy to find stuff on the internet from people who are happy Sea Hopper owners. Any downsides? Any alternatives I should consider?

2. The Sea Hopper Kondor model is attractive because I understand I can use the Mirror sails on it. It's not just about saving money but also about being able to tell my friend some of his kind gift is in use - rather than 'I've done nothing with the Mirror but just bought another boat'.

3. How much room does a plump man in his 40s and his son need in a dinghy? The Sea Hopper options are; Crafty Scamp (2.03m) / Nifty Fifty (2.40m) / Kondor (3.00m). Prices of course increase with size.

4. And now the question I'm hesitating to ask you lot because it's so basic and I am ashamed. Given that I dream of just gentle sailing on lakes and estuaries with my son, the idea of a rig with no boom has obvious attractions. What should I call that rig and what are the pros and cons of not using the perfectly good Mirror sails and mast, but possibly using a smaller, cheaper and simpler rigged Sea Hopper instead?

 

[prv]

Can't answer the various Sea Hopper stuff, but be aware the original Mirror was designed to be car-toppable. Cars have only got bigger since then, so unless you drive a convertible or a Smart I assume this is feasible. Presumably the club has a dinghy park, so you wouldn't be carrying it back and forth every time.

Feel your pain at the lack of side access though. My garden is the same.

Pete

 

[sarabande]

what about one of those demountable catamaran things if you are restricted to a roof rack ?

At 40 you will need a bit of extra room, and a cat is pretty damn fast enought o keep offspring happy.

http://www.search.ask.com/web?o=APN10370&gct=hp&q=portable catamaran

 

[jwilson]

Carried a Mirror round many miles on top of an original 1960s Mini - not many cars smaller than that now unless your company car is a Smart. Used to sometimes take it with me when I travelled working, and have a sail in the evening in different places.

 

[Iain C]

Join a club and keep the boat there. You will find it a right faff to get the boat on the roof everytime you want to go sailing. And as a newbie you'll probably want to sail somewhere there is some safety cover available. Also, if there is an active fleet of a suitable boat, buy one of those. Even if they are racers and you don't want to race, they will latch on to you, help you set the boat up, give you old kit, advice etc etc.

IMHO all the alternative boats you have suggested are too small. I don't know how old your son is but unless he's very small it will be pushing it. I'd be aiming bigger, perhaps a Miracle or similar. The Mirror might be OK but I wouldn't go any smaller.

Booms...there aren't really many advantages to not having them. You will soon get into the habit of ducking out the way, and they do make controlling the boat so much easier. You will find very traditional classes with little performance might not have them, (and some performance cats) but they really are in the minority.

Don't "frankenboat" the Mirror. You'll end up with an incomplete Mirror and a rig that doesn't work on the other boat. Either keep it and go sailing in it, slowly restore elsewhere it whilst you go sailing, or explain your situation to your friend and offer it back. He can't be that precious over it if he gave it to you. Get a knowledgeable friend to have a look at it too before you spend any time or money on it...there's a very good chance it's a pup. So many people start with a fixer-upper boat, they have neither the knowledge or the experience to get it all working properly, so whenever they go sailing things break or don't work as well as they should, so they give up and go and do something different.

Good luck!

 

[mjcoon]

...
4. And now the question I'm hesitating to ask you lot because it's so basic and I am ashamed. Given that I dream of just gentle sailing on lakes and estuaries with my son, the idea of a rig with no boom has obvious attractions. What should I call that rig and what are the pros and cons of not using the perfectly good Mirror sails and mast, but possibly using a smaller, cheaper and simpler rigged Sea Hopper instead?

I know nothing of Sea Hoppers, but note there was a brief thread on them a couple of years ago: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?321860-In-praise-of-the-Sea-Hopper-folding-boat

I don't understand how a boom-less rig would work. A mainsail needs to be tensioned away from the mast to keep it fairly flat and the boom is crucial in this. Better to have a boom and wear a hard hat?

Mike.

 

[baffled9]

Just sticking to the choices you have posed, as someone with too many years of dinghy sailing experience and lots of time spent training novice dinghy sailors, I have to say that there is no comparison between two boats you mention. The Sea Hopper is small and more easily transportable but the Mirror is a real boat. It is small but can be sailed by a couple of adults quite successfully. Take note that the Mirror sold in hundreds of thousands and that is because it is versatile and an ideal starter boat that sails properly and safely. It is now dated of course and if you had a few thousand to spent you could buy a more modern plastic boat. If you want cheap fun - albeit at the cost of some regular maintenance - in something that can be comfortable for you but manageable by a youngster, the Mirror is a good choice. It is car top transportable and I have travelled the Uk and Europe with one on the roof - but it is not something that everybody would want to undertake. OTOH, if you just want to take the boat to your chosen SC and back once a season, you might think that this was OKAY.

On the matter of sailing clubs, of which I have wide experience, you should take care to find one that best suits your particular needs. Find out what dinghies are being sailed there. Find out whether there are restriction to sailing times and to the type of dinghy sailed. Some clubs are better than others in the provision of training opportunities. Many (most) will ask members to undertake duties so make sure that you understand what the options are. Racing will be a feature of almost every club but their commitment and focus will vary considerably so shop around and speak to as many people as you can to avoid getting just the view of whoever you happen to stumble across on a first visit. You will find some who do not encourage anyone who is not committed to out and out racing but many who will welcome an uncertain beginner with open arms.

I suggest that you forget the Hopper, commit to the Mirror and enjoy the start of a great adventure.

 

[NUTMEG]

We started off with a Mirror. Middle son and I had great fun with it and, basically, she taught us how to sail. Plenty of room for two people. I sunk her by putting my knee through the bottom just off of the busy clubhouse. We got a standing ovation. Join a club, keep her there. Boomless mains do exist but are not very efficient. Get used to ducking, it's all part of the fun!

Good luck.

 

[sighmoon]

Our experience of trying to buy a new Seahopper was not a successful one; to say delivery schedules were missed would be an understatement. About 2 years after it was due to be in our posession, we got our money back from the credit card company.

I think the product is great though, and I'd still like a second hand one.

 

[DRA]

Hi, I have a Sea Hopper - Nifty Fifty size. A neat little boat which really does fit inside my hatchback! It sails well with one body in it but when I took a non-sailing (but wanting to learn) friend out in it there wasn't much room! You almost certainly won't be able to "swap sides" on a tack and one of you will always be sitting on the downhill side. I'd imagine the Kontender model would be more suitable for your plan but I wouldn't recommend the smaller one for two-handed sailing..

Mirrors are a lot of fun so if you can solve the transport and storage issues that will be well worth persevering with. As Sophie said, there's plenty of room in it for two.

 

[Searush]

How much room does a plump man in his 40s and his son need in a dinghy? The Sea Hopper options are; Crafty Scamp (2.03m) / Nifty Fifty (2.40m) / Kondor (3.00m). Prices of course increase with size.

A Mirror at 11' would be a tight squeeze, any of those Sea Hoppers will do you a serious injury sooner or later. In addition to there being less room, the boom is likely to be lower too.

Car top the Mirror.
You & your son will be able to lift it on/off the roof rack, you can put all the spars inside the hull & a lightweight trolley on top - use plastic pipe rather than galvanised pipe to keep the weight low, or get a boat roller instead.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I imagine a boomless rig would be some kind of lug sail - something like this:

but even lugsails normally have a boom. As soon as you move off of close-hauled (i.e. you start to ease the mainsheet) the sail will start to lose it's shape and I reckon you'll quickly get fed up with it. On the hand it is important both you and your son can get under the boom quickly and safely, especially when you gybe. Why not try the Mirror first on a calm day and see how you get on? Unfortunately I wouldn't advise standing in the boat whilst it's still on dry land if you're a decent size so you'll need to get it in the water to try it out. If you can't get on with the Mirror I suspect you'll struggle a bit with other dinghies of a similar size too so the idea of keeping a slightly larger boat at a club is an excellent alternative. Hot showers and cold beers can be very nice for a 40 year old body after an hour or two in a dinghy on a cold day as well. I'd join a club even if you do car-top...

 

[Seajet]

Join a club and keep the boat there. You will find it a right faff to get the boat on the roof everytime you want to go sailing. And as a newbie you'll probably want to sail somewhere there is some safety cover available. Also, if there is an active fleet of a suitable boat, buy one of those. Even if they are racers and you don't want to race, they will latch on to you, help you set the boat up, give you old kit, advice etc etc.

IMHO all the alternative boats you have suggested are too small. I don't know how old your son is but unless he's very small it will be pushing it. I'd be aiming bigger, perhaps a Miracle or similar. The Mirror might be OK but I wouldn't go any smaller.

Booms...there aren't really many advantages to not having them. You will soon get into the habit of ducking out the way, and they do make controlling the boat so much easier. You will find very traditional classes with little performance might not have them, (and some performance cats) but they really are in the minority.

Don't "frankenboat" the Mirror. You'll end up with an incomplete Mirror and a rig that doesn't work on the other boat. Either keep it and go sailing in it, slowly restore elsewhere it whilst you go sailing, or explain your situation to your friend and offer it back. He can't be that precious over it if he gave it to you. Get a knowledgeable friend to have a look at it too before you spend any time or money on it...there's a very good chance it's a pup. So many people start with a fixer-upper boat, they have neither the knowledge or the experience to get it all working properly, so whenever they go sailing things break or don't work as well as they should, so they give up and go and do something different.

Good luck!

+1 Absolutely, join a club and leave the boat there with mast up, all you need do is bend the sails on; infinitely less hassle and bad backs.

 

[zikzik]

I have a small (2.03m) Sea Hopper that I bought new a few years ago and also an old Mirror dinghy that I had to take away when I bought its trailer off flee bay. I would not dream of fitting sails to my Sea Hopper, though the 3 metre version would probably sail nearly as well as a Mirror with the same rig.

Sea Hopper's are a brilliant, well designed and built tender or rowing boat, ideal for messing about on a river or lake. Mirror dinghy's are proper sailing boats as well described by many here.

If you want to learn how to sail and find out if family sailing or even racing is for you over time, then join a club as suggested. There won't be any Sea Hoppers being sailed there!

 

[Stoshak]

I have built two Mirrors in my time, and they brought nothing but happiness.

We learned to sail in one, and the family learned in the other in due course. The boat is easily car topped and probably helps with mpg if towing a caravan.

All design features are well developed so alterations to the rig are not necessary. Just make sure the gaff is hoisted to it's full extent, and sit well forward.

 

[Mirror Painter]

Thanks everyone for the helpful responses and opinions. I have seen pictures of cars from yester-year with Mirrors on their roofs and also some clever mechanisms for getting them up there. I do wonder if my pal made his Mirror extra sturdy because it took four fairly strong chaps to lift it over the neighbour's hedge. My son is six years old so he and I wont be popping it on and off the car roof

But I think you have helped me to get over the romantic idea of a pop-up boat for any occasion and to concentrate instead of fixing the Mirror. I'll get started as soon as it stops raining....

 

[Searush]

Thanks everyone for the helpful responses and opinions. I have seen pictures of cars from yester-year with Mirrors on their roofs and also some clever mechanisms for getting them up there. I do wonder if my pal made his Mirror extra sturdy because it took four fairly strong chaps to lift it over the neighbour's hedge. My son is six years old so he and I wont be popping it on and off the car roof

But I think you have helped me to get over the romantic idea of a pop-up boat for any occasion and to concentrate instead of fixing the Mirror. I'll get started as soon as it stops raining....

Ah, six is a bit small to get it onto the roof of a car. But if you have an old car for carrying the dinghy, you can have one rack right at the back of the car, lift the bow onto the bar (hull upside down of course) & then go to the stern & lift & push to slide the boat onto the roof. You will need to rock the hull side to side to get cleats & rig fittings over the racks. I have done it on my own, but it was on a disposable car so I didn't care if it slipped off (as long as the boat wasn't damaged). SWMBO has always been willing to lend a hand, especially if she fears I will need nursing if left to my own devices.

I also picked up a used roof rack loader off e-bay that made solo loading a dinghy pretty easy. Then I just lashed a launching trolley on top.

 

[Tempus]

We used our Seahoppwr happily for a few years with the kids. It's now sitting in our garage. I'd happily lend it to the OP foc if you pm me.

 

[mrming]

My wooden Mirror weighed 45kg and was very easy to lift onto a car top. If yours weighs considerably more than that I would suggest it might not be worth restoring. A perfectly good Mirror can be had for £500 so it's worth thinking about whether you want to restore a boat or whether you'd rather skip that and get on with learning to sail. The advice above regarding joining a club is spot on.

 

[Mirror Painter]

We used our Seahoppwr happily for a few years with the kids. It's now sitting in our garage. I'd happily lend it to the OP foc if you pm me.

That's very kind of you! Thanks. Despite the good advice above I'd like to try a Sea Hopper and if you can help me do that for the price of a meal / beer / something that would be great. I shall PM later (at work now).