Scratchy Gelcoat ?

aidancoughlan

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there is another post at the moment on Hairline cracks in gelcoat, I'm not asking for people to duplicate effort in replying here - My problem is more like hairline scratches I think, in high-wear areas there are lots of little lines showing on the gelcoat.

heres an example...
, or see other photos here

They are smooth to the touch (cant feel them at all by hand), and look like very minute scratches, presumably they fill with dirt which makes them more visisble.

A friend of mine had something similar on his boat, and has apparently had some success over small areas by using very fine-grade sandpaper and large quantities of patience.
Surveyor suggested bleaching them to make them less visible. My thoughts are to try a compound on them (have ordered some Farecla G10)...... any comments or suggestions?

Anybody seen the same thing solved elsewhere?
 

ashanta

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If they are scratches and definitely not cracks, you should use wet and dry start with 400 or 600 and work up to 1200 grade. Finish off with a rubbing compound and either elbow grease or power polisher but beware gel coat is thin so you must only abrade very gently and slightly.

Regards.

Peter.
 

Stemar

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I have similar marks in places on Jissel. I've always thought it was where the gelcoat has worn so thin, the layup is starting to show through. If so any abrasive would be counterproductive.

If you have any success rubbing them down, please let me know. I'll VERY happily admit I'm wrong and start work (looks over shoulder to find he's alone in the room) I mean put SWMBO to work /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

Lance

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Agree with ashanta, but if the scratches are as fine as you say, the the G10 with a power polisher (or lots of elbow grease) may do the trick.
If you do need to go the wet & dry route, add some washing up liquid to the water to help lubricate and use a rubber sanding block with the W&D paper, this will reduce the risk of creating low spots in the gel coat.

As asanta said "Gently - Gently" - patience is a vertue!

Good luck

Lance
 

yoda

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From what I can see in the photos I would tend to agree with you. I think it is wear learing to the lay up starting to show through.

Yoda
 

aidancoughlan

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Hi Stemar, as i mentioned my friends boat (another westerly) had the same marks near boat boat winches, and he fixed it (on one side) with a fine wet and dry like Ashanta has suggested above. The result is very impressive (no trace left at all) - however, it took him a *long* time going very slowly to avoid over-doing it, so much so that he's not bothered to do the rest yet.

So, there is light at the end of the tunnell, but I'm thinking that a compound might provide an easier way to clean out the scratches and rub them down enough to minimise dirt appearing in them again. It will be a while before I get to it, but I promise to post, and PM if I can find this post again when we get any results.

ps. it will probably be me, since SWMBO was looking over my shoulder as I read your post, and you've just blown my cover :) ... I'll have to work hard on brownie points to gain enough credit to get the job done!.
 

aidancoughlan

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Lance and Yoda, I missed your posts somehow... I do hope it's not wear significant enough for the layup to show through. This was my original concern, and pointed out as a particular question for the surveyor to look at - but he was adamant that it was only cosmetic, and suggest bleach to mask the visual effect.
If my friends experience is anything to go by, the same marks have dissapeard after some wet and dry.... so fingers crossed.

I would hate to think what happens when gelcoat wears away completely - I think you can get a new coat on, but it costs big bucks.
 

AndCur

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Hi

I looks very much like the gel coat has worn thin in these areas. I would be very careful with rubbing down either with compound or wet and dry. It might be best
to leave these areas as they are.

Regards

Andrew
 

H4B

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my westerly cock pit shows the same scratching or wear . I have decided to paint with a two pack epoxy. rubbing down has removed some but other areas of high wear (seating upstands are just a dull grey colour)In order to get a unifrom finish paint is the only answer.
 

aidancoughlan

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I agree that painting is probably not a good idea - when I was originally looking at boats, I went to one I was particularly keen on from spec, it had been painted over in certain areas and looked terrible - I couldnt bring myself to buy it for this sole reason.

*If* it is worn so thin that the layup is showing through, I fear the only answer is professionally applied Awlgrip paint job or new gelcoat, both I suspect at great expense. Anybody done this ?

However, I'm not convinced yet that is what it is... maybe i'm just rationalising. :-(


ps. in relation to using CIF/JIF on fibreglass... maybe this is what made the scratches on my boat, and why the previous owner told me not to use it! ... http://www.boats.com/boat-articles/Maintenance-132/Gelcoat+Care/2186.html
"....Avoid using household cleansers! The "grit" in kitchen scouring powder is harder than the gelcoat. So, as it cleans it scratches. You can literally clean the shine right off your boat in a few washings. Be sure you use a cleaner that is specifically designed for fiberglass. "
 

Stemar

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Sorry about blowing your cover!

I'd offer you a day's labour to make up for it, if you weren't so far away. Lovely place Wicklow, though. I spent a year near Bray several years ago and loved it!

IMHO, a professional job isn't necessarily essential if it comes down to painting. There are some truly ghastly DIY jobs about, but with a little know-how and a lot of patience, there's no reason why a DIY job shouldn't be as good as a professional one.

Proper preparation, including removing windows and other fittings, followed by umpteen coats of filler, primer, and topcoat, using a consistent paint system, be it Awlgrip or something else will give you a good result that will last for years, and look much better than the professional job because he can't charge you enough to do all that, and will probably mask around the windows, etc. You'll have to do the lot, though, not just the bad bits.

Spraying is probably ideal, if you have the facilities, but I expect to use a roller then tip off the orange peel and bubbles with a jenny brush when I do Jissel.

Good luck - keep us posted with how you get on!
 

aidancoughlan

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Hi Steve, I suppose you are right but I suspect that few of us have the patience or know-how to do the job right. I'll be sure to follow up with a post when I get around to trying the compund/ wet & dry out and i'll try to remember to PM as well.
 

jerryat

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Hi!

I don't agree with asj1. I discussed painting my cockpit and coachroof with my surveyor last year, as nearly eight years in the Med/Caribbean had produced exactly what this thread is about. His initial view was don't (for similar reasons to asj1) BUT, it transpired that those cockpits he'd seen painted were extremely poorly done, usually by the very unskilled owner.

I have just completed painting the cockpit and coachroof of my Fulmar using the latest 2:1mix International Perfection two-pack (it was felt by International that getting a very smooth, fair finish using expoxy would be difficult) with 3 undercoats and 3 gloss coats, each rubbed down beofre applying the next.

Yes, it took around three weeks virtually full time to do, but none of those who have been aboard since completion have even realised it was paint, and couldn't believe that it wasn't the original, cleaned and polished GRP. This time does not include removing all the windows, fittings, engine panel, teak seat panels etc etc etc - or putting them all back!!!

Whilst I can understand the general reticence re painting (i.e. has it been done to cover up something) I also recall the horror people expressed in the early days of osmosis and even the suggestion of painting the topsides, and both those panics/concerns have calmed down when was common sense, time and experience was applied.

Frankly, I see many, much younger boats (mines 21 years old) with their gelcoats in an appalling state that cannot be polished out or sensibly renovated without resorting to full gelcoat removal and re-gelcoating - an horrendously expensive proposition with a doubtful and inconsistent end result if the couple I've seen are anything to go by.

It seems to me better to protect the underlying structure and improve the looks, rather than hoping it'll go away by doing nothing. As Stemar correctly says, take your time as this is NOT a quick fix. To get that mirror like finish is damned hard, boring and time consuming work, but worth every second if you get the finish and protection I've managed.

Do have a go, make absolutely CERTAIN that all blemishes are filled and completely fair before even thinking about starting the gloss coats and I'm sure you'll be delighted.

Cheers Jerry
 

H4B

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Re: Scratchy Gelcoat ? re jerryat

Thank you jerryat .very encouraging. I dont agree with asj1 either it all depends on the prep and application. I would not contemplate it if I thought the result would look awful. I am using Blakes 2 part, from my research they are the easiest for DIY application using Jenney Brush system. I have done some practice and am happy with the results , am lucky to have the boat under cover at home. I just need the temp. to rise . Interesting the variuos coments re CIF JIF, I would not be surprised if my cock-pit had not had a dose of this in the past.
 

ashanta

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Steve,

I carried out this exercise when restoring my current boat. The gel coat is reasonably thin but sufficient for me to carry out the work as I described above. If the scratches are deep rather than just a dullness of the surface then I would fill the scratches but this would mean blending the repairs with the surrounding surface area and this again can only be done by the using wet and dry on the surrounding areas to match the new gel coat repair which will be much brighter than the surrounding areas.

Regards.

Peter.
 

robmurray

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I had exactly this problem - Westerlies are notorious for it apparently. It is often due to a manufacturing problem. Osmotec in Hamble told me there was no solution - just put up with it. However my whole cockpit has now been cured for less than £400. Some of it could be rubbed down with wet and dry and some had to be re-gelled. The result is literally as good as new. If you find a good freelance gel coat guy he will solve it for you. Once you have it rectified you need to keep it well polished as UV makes the problem worse
Good luck
 

jerryat

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Re: Scratchy Gelcoat ? re jerryat

Hi H4B,

Yes, my boat is undercover too, but even so, in order to ensure the correct temperatures while painting, I also fitted a sort of tent over the whole boat. This virtually elimimated dust as well as keeping the temp. provided by two heaters nice and constant.

This fine 'scratching' (or deterioration in the gelcoat) is not by any means limited to Westerly boats and several of my friend's boats of other makes are also afflicted. It's just a factor of time/UV damage. I personally doubt that in the shorter term this fine crazing causes any structural defect, but it might eventually, and aside from the unsightly looks, either re-gelling or painting is the only sensible solution.

We 'wet and dryed' our cockpit very carefully (twice in the last four years!) and despite frequent subsequent polishing, the crazing gradually returned. We also found that the gelcoat thickness varied enormously. It was very thin on the 'corners' and thicker on the flat sections, obvious when one thinks of moulding techniques. When we'd finished the second time, and despite taking a lot of time and extreme care, it was apparent that the laminate was 'grinning' through in four or five places. That decided us to paint (or re-gel initially) as further similar efforts could only make matters worse. Incidentally, International were very helpful with advice and support, and confirmed that the gloss could be burnished when fully cured if desired. I haven't needed to do this, but am sure that in a few years time it may be worth doing - hence my applying three full gloss coats to allow for it.

As Rob says, even re-gelling (assuming you can match the colour to the areas you don't do) needs constant polishing, and that still leaves the untreated areas to continue to fail, requiring further work in the future.

It therefore seems to me (no disrespect to you Rob!) that doing 'half' a job is perhaps not a sensible answer. In short, if there are areas that 'must' be done now, the remainder isn't far behind, so my decision was to bite the bullet and do the lot in one go. The surveyor's suggested costs of approx £2000.00 (though this was a guesstimate) for re-gelling the whole of mine, put it right out of the running. IMHO, one has to weigh up the possible extra value re-gelling might give to any resale price and make one's own judgement. A bit like making a judgement whether to treat a hull with a 'wet' reading I suppose.

I don't believe the difference between re-gelling and painting would be worth it as it is very difficult to do and virtually impossible to produce a consistant 'as moulded' finish.

Cheers Jerry
 

H4B

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Re: Scratchy Gelcoat ? re jerryat

Hi jerry

We seem to have had very similar problems. Tent over cock pit area is in place heaters are a problem because I am relying on generator for power. Boat goes back in water in a month so hoping for warm weather to complete . After a few of the posts I momentarily started having secong thoughts but your post is once again re-assuring especially as we have the same class. Fulmar.

regards
 
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