SANTORINI

[rivonia]

Please be warned that there is trouble afoot in Santorini. There is a very obnoxious Greek port person who is making life VERY difficult for foreign yachts there. The embassy (UK) is now involved. Our close fiend is there right now and it is not good what is happening. Also the fishermens union are helping the yachtsmen by giving support.

So do be very aware.

 

[Sandyman]

Can you expand ? tell us whats going on ?

 

[rivonia]

There is a yacht called idel six on a buoy there. He now has the British embassy and the Greek diplomat helping him. he had a problem with his engine -blown gasget. The port authority INSISTED and would not allow him to leave untill a Lloyds surveryer gave hime the all clear. The surveryor came fro Athens. it goes on and on. It is now all with the EU member via brussels.

My warning was to let all yachts to be aware of what is happening in Santorini.

 

[Chris_Robb]

There is a yacht called idel six on a buoy there. He now has the British embassy and the Greek diplomat helping him. he had a problem with his engine -blown gasget. The port authority INSISTED and would not allow him to leave untill a Lloyds surveryer gave hime the all clear. The surveryor came fro Athens. it goes on and on. It is now all with the EU member via brussels.

My warning was to let all yachts to be aware of what is happening in Santorini.

Be aware that this is not uncommon for boats throughout Greece, especially if you have been towed in. They will be restrained until a survey has passed her for sea - at your expense. And yes the surveyor will come from Athens.

So if you are in this situation, avoid using the VHF to call for help if possible. If you are towed in by a passing yacht, try to make sure you are not seen by the port police. Do not tell the port police that you have broken down.

Yes - this is Greece!

 

[charles_reed]

I can corroborate Chris Robb's comment that if you have arrived pleading a broken yacht you wil be compelled to get a survey done before going any farther and be certificated as fit for sea.
Mind you Santorini is probably one of the most horrid places I've been to in Greece and I can well imagine nasty things happening there.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

I can corroborate Chris Robb's comment that if you have arrived pleading a broken yacht you wil be compelled to get a survey done before going any farther and be certificated as fit for sea.
Mind you Santorini is probably one of the most horrid places I've been to in Greece and I can well imagine nasty things happening there.

"Horrid"? No. It is the officialdom that are arses. It is a beautiful island but massively touristical in the season.

 

[Tony Cross]

I can also support Chris_Robb's comment. It happens all over Greece. If you issue a Pan-Pan, if you're seen being towed into port, or even if the Port Police get to hear (from the marina?) that you have problems with your boat, they can (and do) prevent you from leaving until the boat has been surveyed to their satisfaction but at your cost. Never admit to mechanical problems in Greece, not if there is any chance of the port police or coastguard hearing about it anyway.

 

[charles_reed]

"Horrid"? No. It is the officialdom that are arses. It is a beautiful island but massively touristical in the season.

Yeah, well opinions differ and you're welcome to yours - BUT, no anchorages, massively over-run during the season, prohibitively expensive AND not a patch on Capri.

 

[vyv_cox]

In Poros on Kefalonia a few years ago we were next to a French boat having this problem. He had run onto a rock and had called a Mayday but within minutes was free again. His papers and passport were confiscated until the mandatory survey had been carried out. After much negotiation by fax he arranged a relatively low cost survey, just a man with a snorkel and an inspector, they went outside the harbour for half an hour, then returned. He 'got away' with €400.

 

[jimbaerselman]

My first experince of this law's application was in 1982. Quote from jimbsail.info/greece

Cost of Calling for Assistance (!)

If any any boat "problem" or failure comes to the notice of harbour authorities (typically, an engine failure followed by a tow into harbour) the authorities will usually require a surveyor's report (stating that the vessel is seaworthy) before it will be permitted to go to sea again. Such a report will cost around €600 without an inspection; significantly more if any actual inspection is required. Such a report has to be allocated a reference before it is valid, and this can only be achieved in normal working hours. Any tow will usually add an additional charge.

Unfortunately, this is a nice little earner for surveyors. Often something for nothing.

It's not officialdom which are the "arses". It's the law which motivates surveyors to bend politician's ears to ensure their earnings aren't reduced . . . many other professions in Greece have similar nice little niches of earnings protected by law, with no incnetives to change.

I heard, but did not have it confirmed, that German consulates, on request, advise the port police that their leisure boat captains are qualified to survey their own craft. I'll put this to the Cruising Association to see the [URL="http://www.cruising.org.uk/public/rats" ]Regs and Technical Services (RATS) committee[/URL] outfit has any time to argue the case. One more item on their long list of projects . . .

 

[Carmel2]

Would " I have run out of fuel " cut the mustard?

 

[charles_reed]

Would " I have run out of fuel " cut the mustard?

Not if you've been towed in, saw it happen to a French boat in Astypalea.

 

[1bobt]

It happened to me when I was dis-masted off Siros There were about thirty boat all lined up on the quay mine completely wiped out nothing standing above winches
There was this guy wandering up and down the quay looking lost........... Guess what he was the surveyor looking for my boat !!!i He did not even climbe on board.
Cost £650 odd euro.

 

[duncan99210]

When our injector pump died just off Gouvia the marina wouldn't tow us in because of this business but they happily pushed us into a berth alongside the coast guard berths..... We deliberately didn't make a radio call as we'd heard about the scam before the engine died.

 

[Glyka]

When someone is reported missing, the port police, tha navy and the air-force are looking for them, at a huge cost of course. That's why the port police cannot let you sail in the knowledge that something is not functioning.
The port police does not have the authority to judge the severity af the damage no matter how obvious it is. Only certified surveyors (naval architects engineers) can. The price of a survey by an authorised surveyor is 600,00 to 800,00 even for the insurance companies.
It looks silly, but there is a point. Think of it.
Of course you can always NOT declare a damage to the port police, they are ok with this as long as they are not held responsible (by everyone) for any further trouble.

 

[Tranona]

When someone is reported missing, the port police, tha navy and the air-force are looking for them, at a huge cost of course. That's why the port police cannot let you sail in the knowledge that something is not functioning.
The port police does not have the authority to judge the severity af the damage no matter how obvious it is. Only certified surveyors (naval architects engineers) can. The price of a survey by an authorised surveyor is 600,00 to 800,00 even for the insurance companies.
It looks silly, but there is a point. Think of it.
Of course you can always NOT declare a damage to the port police, they are ok with this as long as they are not held responsible (by everyone) for any further trouble.

You make it all sound so reasonable. Wonder why we don't do this in this country with vastly more boats and far more extreme conditions. 6-800 Euros is outrageous for a survey. That would buy you a full condition survey on a 40' yacht for that money. The only "point" is to make money.

It is just jobs for the boys with no evidence that it has any effect on safety.

BTW don't have a problem if the rescue services want to charge for their services as you can insure against that, but paying somebody a huge some of money for something that is unnecessary is just wrong.

 

[Glyka]

You make it all sound so reasonable. Wonder why we don't do this in this country with vastly more boats and far more extreme conditions. 6-800 Euros is outrageous for a survey. That would buy you a full condition survey on a 40' yacht for that money. The only "point" is to make money.

It is just jobs for the boys with no evidence that it has any effect on safety.

BTW don't have a problem if the rescue services want to charge for their services as you can insure against that, but paying somebody a huge some of money for something that is unnecessary is just wrong.

I agree and disagree with your points.

Yes the amount is very high. But it's not the port police or the state that gets it.
Yes you could be insured against rescue cost. But what if you are not? Could you afford to pay the millions that would be claimed?
The problem is that word or low-value statements (written or not) by, let's say, the local mechanic are not valued. Hard evidence is asked in all cases by the authorities which is a major burden in everyday life here.
I don't know if it is still so in the UK but I remember a friend who told me how much he was surprised when while receiving the yacht-master qualification papers he realised that they never asked for a proof of id. When he asked how they can be sure that he didn't take the exams on behalf of someone else the also surprised examiner said: And why would anybody do this, have a qualification not deserving it? Two different worlds, really. I hope that it's still so!

 

[Tony Cross]

When someone is reported missing, the port police, tha navy and the air-force are looking for them, at a huge cost of course. That's why the port police cannot let you sail in the knowledge that something is not functioning.
The port police does not have the authority to judge the severity af the damage no matter how obvious it is. Only certified surveyors (naval architects engineers) can. The price of a survey by an authorised surveyor is 600,00 to 800,00 even for the insurance companies.
It looks silly, but there is a point. Think of it.
Of course you can always NOT declare a damage to the port police, they are ok with this as long as they are not held responsible (by everyone) for any further trouble.

In the marina here at Agios Nikoloas on Crete there is a coastguard vessel. It's an old Avon class lifeboat I believe. In the 7 years we've been here we have seen it go out on several occasions for "training" purposes. Always on a windless day with a dead flat calm sea. We've even been up on to a high point nearby to watch them zooming around the bay to no real purpose. Only once in all that time have we ever seen them go out on a real operation and that was to arrest one of the Palestinian relief boats which left the marina without permission.

Some friends of ours were involved in a rescue between Milos and Crete when a woman passenger jumped or fell off a large ferry. The search for her lasted several hours and involved our friends in their small yacht and two cargo ships that diverted to assist. Our friends eventually pulled the woman alive from the water and performed immediate first aid (keeping her warm, conscious etc.) until she could be transferred back to the ferry. The coastguard cutter arrived as the woman was being transferred back onto the ferry. Piraeus radio was involved at the start, they sent the Mayday relay, but it was the ferry who asked for help from our friends and from the two cargo ships, not Piraeus radio. There was no air force presence whatsoever and no naval presence or assistance either. Basically the ferry, our friends and the two cargo ships were on their own during the entire rescue, despite Piraeus radio being made aware right at the start.

Your statement sounds reasonable but it doesn't match the reality of search-and-rescue operations or training. It is a well knownm fact amonst those of us who sail in Greek waters that we are pretty much on our own. That's why we take care to look out for each other.

 

[Tranona]

I agree and disagree with your points.

Yes the amount is very high. But it's not the port police or the state that gets it.
Yes you could be insured against rescue cost. But what if you are not? Could you afford to pay the millions that would be claimed?
The problem is that word or low-value statements (written or not) by, let's say, the local mechanic are not valued. Hard evidence is asked in all cases by the authorities which is a major burden in everyday life here.

Does not matter who gets it. Paying a surveyor 6-800 euros to say that a boat that has had a minor problem is now OK is robbery. It is the principle - the skipper is responsible for the seaworthiness of his boat, not the state.

Rescue services in general around the world do not charge for their service, it is financed out of general tax. Some may charge for non emergency services such as salvage, but this is usually covered by a boat's insurance. No emergency service is going to refuse to save your life if you are uninsured.

When I talk about evidence I am suggesting that there is no evidence that insisting on a survey after an incident reduces the number of accidents or reduces the cost of rescue services. It is just collusion between the authorities and people in protected positions.

As you say, two different worlds!

 

[RAI]

I know some one who got caught by the required survey cost in Portugal. It seems the authorities have started to apply rules intended for ships to yachts as well. Hence the UK could start the same game if they wanted to.