San Marino Flag for pleasure craft in the Med

Tranona

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Why do you think you need a "flag of convenience"? If you are not able to use your own country's register then there are better options than San Marino.
 
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Why do you think you need a "flag of convenience"? If you are not able to use your own country's register then there are better options than San Marino.
Ok ... I would have to take the Swiss Flag - the guys from the register are just around the corner here in Basel ... Switzerland is not an "Ocean Country". The Swiss Flag is easy to request, costs quite some fee and has many restrictions for private use.
 

jfm

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~No-one has experience, for good reason! Seems a really bad and expensive idea to me. If you live in CH, why not just flag in your own name in CH? What attractions are you seeing with SM registration that no-one else in the world can see?
 

jfm

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Ok ... I would have to take the Swiss Flag - the guys from the register are just around the corner here in Basel ... Switzerland is not an "Ocean Country". The Swiss Flag is easy to request, costs quite some fee and has many restrictions for private use.
I struggle to believe CH costs for you will be higher than SM costs.
What are the restrictions/problems in CH for private use? Can you give an example or two?
 
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I struggle to believe CH costs for you will be higher than SM costs.
What are the restrictions for private use? Can you give an example or two?
Swiss pleasure crafts is only for private use: no possibility for coding, and no way for any commercal use:

Fedlex
Registrierung einer Jacht (only German. French, Italiano)
... ... "Insbesondere sind die Bestimmungen der Jachtenverordnung einzuhalten, wonach der gewerbsmässige Transport auf schweizerischen Jachten untersagt ist (Art. 17 JV) und eine Jacht Dritten nur ausnahmsweise zur Benutzung überlassen werden darf (Art. 18 JV)." ...

If I have some non Swiss people as mate or steward I have to employ them under CH law = costs to high.
 
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advantages of flying the San Marino flag

Some of the advantages of flying the San Marino flag:
  • No additional requirements are posed at the national level to the standards set by the international conventions.
  • The procedures to verify compliance are efficient, fast, and thorough.
  • Paperwork and bureaucracy are reduced to the minimum necessary to satisfy international requirements.
  • A small national government and open registry allow for flexibility and tailored customer service.
  • San Marino allows for commercial registration without differentiating between charter with and without crew.
  • San Marino allows vessels in private use to be temporarily engaged in trade for a period up to 90 days.
  • San Marino allows for commercial registration to be temporarily suspended in order to switch to private use, with a simple online procedure
For me one point is, that SM is not directly under EU law, it's independent to some point - as I like as a Swiss man.
 

Tranona

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advantages of flying the San Marino flag

Some of the advantages of flying the San Marino flag:
  • No additional requirements are posed at the national level to the standards set by the international conventions.
  • The procedures to verify compliance are efficient, fast, and thorough.
  • Paperwork and bureaucracy are reduced to the minimum necessary to satisfy international requirements.
  • A small national government and open registry allow for flexibility and tailored customer service.
  • San Marino allows for commercial registration without differentiating between charter with and without crew.
  • San Marino allows vessels in private use to be temporarily engaged in trade for a period up to 90 days.
  • San Marino allows for commercial registration to be temporarily suspended in order to switch to private use, with a simple online procedure
For me one point is, that SM is not directly under EU law, it's independent to some point - as I like as a Swiss man.
Registration of pleasure craft whether private or commercial has nothing to do with EU law. Coding is determined by flag state and licensing requirements for charter are determined largely by state law. The Swiss registration does not seem to restrict you for private use - that is what it is for. If you want to register elsewhere with the intention of coding then I suggest you look at one of the "Red Flag" registries such as UK Part 1 or the Channel Islands (Guernsey or Jersey). These registers are commonly used by "proper" charter yachts as well as by private individuals who do not want to use their home state registers.
 

Portofino

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~No-one has experience, for good reason! Seems a really bad and expensive idea to me. If you live in CH, why not just flag in your own name in CH? What attractions are you seeing with SM registration that no-one else in the world can see?
My understanding is with the CH thing there’s a quite onerous set of qualifications needed , the skipper thing .Pretty boring and expensive doing it on a lake , which in practice terms has very little relevance to actual Med sea states at the end of the day .

For me being a dual national and holding a U.K. PP and retaining U.K. addresses …it was a no brainier to simply fly a red ensign .

Having said that you do see a few white crosses.A few .
Probably guys already started on lakes etc for what ever reason and eventually migrating to the med .

But a a newbie to the Med starting out by passing the early lake Qualy stuff ………..you can see what he’s trying to do .Well i can !
 
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jfm

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advantages of flying the San Marino flag

Some of the advantages of flying the San Marino flag:
  • No additional requirements are posed at the national level to the standards set by the international conventions.
  • The procedures to verify compliance are efficient, fast, and thorough.
  • Paperwork and bureaucracy are reduced to the minimum necessary to satisfy international requirements.
  • A small national government and open registry allow for flexibility and tailored customer service.
  • San Marino allows for commercial registration without differentiating between charter with and without crew.
  • San Marino allows vessels in private use to be temporarily engaged in trade for a period up to 90 days.
  • San Marino allows for commercial registration to be temporarily suspended in order to switch to private use, with a simple online procedure
For me one point is, that SM is not directly under EU law, it's independent to some point - as I like as a Swiss man.
I don't see any advantages in any of that, though I see plenty of disadvantages. Pretty much every flag state will offer the same, for what very little it's worth. Only difference with SM is that they shout about it on their website, perhaps trying to give an impression that these things are special when they're not, and all it really shows is the naivety of their website drafting team. .
 

jfm

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My understanding is with the CH thing there’s a quite onerous set of qualifications needed , the skipper thing .Pretty boring and expensive doing it on a lake , which in practice terms has very little relevance to actual Med sea states at the end of the day .

For me being a dual national and holding a U.K. PP and retaining U.K. addresses …it was a no brainier to simply fly a red ensign .

Having said that you do see a few white crosses.A few .
Probably guys already started on lakes etc for what ever reason and eventually migrating to the med .

But a a newbie to the Med starting out by passing the early lake Qualy stuff ………..you can see what he’s trying to do .Well i can !
Ok fair enough CH registration might be inconvenient. In which case go somewhere else like a red ensign sate, but not San Marino!
 
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My understanding is with the CH thing there’s a quite onerous set of qualifications needed , the skipper thing .Pretty boring and expensive doing it on a lake , which in practice terms has very little relevance to actual Med sea states at the end of the day .

For me being a dual national and holding a U.K. PP and retaining U.K. addresses …it was a no brainier to simply fly a red ensign .

Having said that you do see a few white crosses.A few .
Probably guys already started on lakes etc for what ever reason and eventually migrating to the med .

But a a newbie to the Med starting out by passing the early lake Qualy stuff ………..you can see what he’s trying to do .Well i can !
I can give you some information - but has nothing to do with CH flag / registration.

I got the normal Swiss licence for sailing ships around 1978 ... theoretical and practical test with a local expert on a swiss lake issued by swiss water police.
I got the normal Swiss licence for motor ships around 2020 ... only one practical test (Basel, local on the Rhine) with a local expert by swiss water police.
And for international cruising: I got the Swiss ICC for Ocean Racing - Motorboat - by the Swiss Yachting Association with a 1 day full theorethical exam and a proven record of 500 sm offshore.
All this gives me the possibillity to command motoryachts up to 300 BRT, max. 24m, worldwide with no limits ...
 
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I can give you some information - but has nothing to do with CH flag / registration.

I got the normal Swiss licence for sailing ships around 1978 ... theoretical and practical test with a local expert on a swiss lake issued by swiss water police.
I got the normal Swiss licence for motor ships around 2020 ... only one practical test (Basel, local on the Rhine) with a local expert by swiss water police.
And for international cruising: I got the Swiss ICC for Ocean Racing - Motorboat - by the Swiss Yachting Association with a 1 day full theorethical exam and a proven record of 500 sm offshore.
All this gives me the possibillity to command motoryachts up to 300 BRT, max. 24m, worldwide with no limits ...
... and beside this ... the last 4 years I was around Italy, Croatia and the Netherlands and this summer also travelling with a motoryacht from Belgium over to GB Dover and all way long to London. I did around 2500 sm offshore.
 
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My understanding is with the CH thing there’s a quite onerous set of qualifications needed , the skipper thing .Pretty boring and expensive doing it on a lake , which in practice terms has very little relevance to actual Med sea states at the end of the day .

For me being a dual national and holding a U.K. PP and retaining U.K. addresses …it was a no brainier to simply fly a red ensign .

Having said that you do see a few white crosses.A few .
Probably guys already started on lakes etc for what ever reason and eventually migrating to the med .

But a a newbie to the Med starting out by passing the early lake Qualy stuff ………..you can see what he’s trying to do .Well i can !
Sorry Potofino ... you have no knowledge about the Swiss licences. The Swiss ICC for Ocean Yachting equals +/- a RYA Yacht Master.
 

Tranona

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Sorry Potofino ... you have no knowledge about the Swiss licences. The Swiss ICC for Ocean Yachting equals +/- a RYA Yacht Master.
There is no ICC Ocean. The ICC is very basic and of course you can get one with an advanced qualification. However you can also get one after a morning assessment by an authorised examiner as I did. All the ICC does is certify that you can demonstrate knowledge of basic rules and can handle your boat at a basic level. It is a certificate of competence, not a qualification.
 
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