Sales pitch of the day.

[ChrisP]

Not realy a boaty one but I'm sure you can add some similar experiences.

No.1 daughter has just passed the test and now is the proud owner of her first car.
Opening line is "Dad one of my tyres is a funny shape, it's all flat at the bottom".
Realising how lucky I am to be in the company of a woman that can spot the difference between tyre shapes. We proceed out to the car and thence to the garage to get the air line out. After sorting out the offending back tyre and showing her how to use the air line etc. I tell her to check the other 4 (spare included). Then (and this is the good bit) she promptly tells me that she can't do the front ones because they, acording to the man in the garage. Have to be filled with nitrogen to make the steering lighter. A long discussion ensued which included facts like the proportion of nitrogen in air, correct tyre pressures and steering weight. The level of salesman bull$hit and the gulability of the female.

All tyres are now filled with that air stuff you can get for free.

Anybody got any similar examples of the salesman's art?


ChrisP )

What do you mean the sea gull in front's walking !!!

 

[hlb]

No really about salesmen, but years ago I employed a chap and gave him my car to do a delivery in Hull about 90 miles away. He came back full of distress. The stearing wasn't right, the brakes didn't work and the clutch was knackered. I jumped in the car and spun it round the block. could find nothing wrong with it. Took me hours to figger out the problem. Then it clicked. It was snowing!!

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn

 

[tcm]

in the US salespeople of cars are often female. The cars are incredibly cheap, very shiny, and loads of dials and stuff. So i went in. The dodge stealth summink looked fabuolous for $28,000. Hopw fast does it go? Oooh, pretty fast. I waited for the exact number ....er "at least a hundred miles an hour". I said I blimmin well hope so !.... Evidently they don't ask this question much. So. never mind, I asked the size of the engine, but she didn't know that, other than it fitted inside the front part of the car, under the hood. I asked how many valves the engine had, and she was failry certain that it was 31.

This all groslly unfair, of course. Most wimmin have no interest in the car other than the driving about in it, which i must admit is the main thing.

I would like to know more about your d's new car. I wd've thougfht that supercool nitogen-inflated tyres possibly a very good idea ?...

 

[Chris_d]

Actualy this is true, normal air contains water vapour, when the tyre
heats up, the water condense's on the inside of the tyre and effects
the balence, normal air also expands at a higher rate so controling
the pressure is difficult, as the tyre heats up the pressure rises.

Its normal practice on Formula 1 and top motorsport to run nitrogen
in the tyres, although I doubt it it will have much use in a road car
unless you are a total hooligan.

 

[BarryH]

I onece told my wife that the steering in her car was lighter because i filled the front tyres with Helium, and not to corner too hard as the squeel would be a much higher pitch!!

Smile. its only money!

 

[ChrisP]

Whilst there is some merit in controling the tyre profile for grip in cornering and power transmission. Lighter steering on a Nisan micra? I presume that the lower molecular mass of Nitrogen over air makes the car lighter too.

Sorry, idea banished to the home for nerdie ideas and suspect salesmen.

What do you mean the sea gull in front's walking !!!

 

[burgundyben]

I\'m a hooligan.

Must get a cylinder of nitrogen for the extra noisey Ducati, now, where to get some, wonder if Volvo sell it.

......girls, girls, get back, please, one at a time......

 

[paulineb]

One at a time ??

wuss ;-)

Pxx

 

[tcm]

Re: hooligan accessories

For cars :

1. A full face helmet (in the *car* tho..) is g'teed to blow away the challengers before they even drop the clutch. Also consider some bits of scafffold pole in the rear seats. Actaully, wearing a heklmet isn't legal, but the police don't seem aware of this.

2. A Citroen GTI turbo. As well as being very cheap, this holds the road like glue around corners, and especially good for taking speed ramps at over 50mph. Also capable of hitting the sides of tunnels or other cars and continuing without wavering from chosen course.

3. A "nitro" njector kit for temporary burst of monster speed. not partic recommended for a citroen engine, but apparently v good in short bursts. Kawasaki engines seem to be able to take it.

4. For cars: get a large hammer and whack a big dent in each panel, and the roof. SWMBO may be able to help here. As well as putting off the potential car thief, this massively increase street cred, and the amount of space you get on the road. Dobn't forget to dent the roof too full-roll effect.

5. For cars : Trapezoidal windscreen attachment. Get a piece of perspex, cut it into a trapezium shape, and stick it over the windscreen. In the rear view mirror of any car on the motorway, your car will appear to be a Lamborghini Coutach or Diablo, and everyone will move over.

Hooligan opportunities exist at most major sporting events with "overflow carpark" that is in fact a field. Turn off any antiski device and have a "spin". On a sloping field site, and a cheap (disposal) car, and helmet, you can play rollies, where you see how many times you can roll the car. Crouch below the door line and pull hard left or right to get the car to roll.


For motorbikes...

6. a rotating exhaust opener, operated from the handlebars . needs to be specially made. Essentially gives on-off straight-thru pipes, good for freaking out lines of traffic and esp good in tunnels.

7. One-shot exhaust injector. Cheapily, this can be done by syringe with metal injector of 100 ml of paraffin into the ehaust, and nice long flame ensues, but need hot exhaust.

8. For motorbikes with carbs: loosen the carbs a little bit. The bike goes slower but does great backfires on the overrun.

9. Also for motorbikes: cheap anti-lift rear wheel set as on the dragsters. Make sure you can wheelie reliably and are driving a moderately quick bike or this will look silly.

 

[Chris_d]

Re: Sorry from a nerd then!.

Well at the risk of aquiring an anorak, I'm afraid it is true, go
down to your local high performance tyre specialist and he
will offer you the option of filling your tyres with nitrogen.

Because the nitrogen is more stable under temperature you
can increase your recommended cold tyre pressures, this
will reduce the contact patch area on your Micra and hence
lighten the steering, it will also help fuel economy.

If you still don't believe it I can reccomend the Flat Earth Society.

 

[ChrisP]

Re: Sorry from a nerd then!.

Reducing the contact area of the tyres in a road car. Such a wonderfull idea must make breaking and steering realy exciting. Wonder what your insurance company thinks of you.


What do you mean the sea gull in front's walking !!!

 

[Chris_d]

Re: Alright I give up..

... clearly Nissan are wasting their time, such
subtleties are obviously wasted on the average
motorist.

I'm apologise if I offended, guess I should stick to
lurking round here.

 

[tcm]

Re: No! Don\'t give up - Chrispy read this!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/scienceshack/backcat/adamexp/wlracingtyres.shtml

"Nitrogen is a very unreactive gas. If you fill a tyre with dry nitrogen gas, it is possible to predict how much it will expand as the tyre heats up from friction with the road. Air on the other hand is an unpredictable beast. While its composition is always the same, consisting of 76% nitrogen and about 20% oxygen, the amount of water in it can change from minute to minute and this water makes the expansion of air very unpredictable.

The height of a racing tyre is critical to a couple of millimetres. If the pressure in a tyre is too high the car will be difficult to steer and if it is too low the car may scrape the track, so race engineers need to know exactly how much the gas in a tyre will expand during a race. In the extreme situation of a crash the fact that nitrogen expands less than oxygen when heated means there is less chance of the tyre exploding during a fire. Tyres can explode with the force of a dynamite detonation, which increases the risk already faced by rescue crews.

This is the high performance end of the spectrum, but nitrogen is also used in the tyres of more every day vehicles. Long distance lorries often use it as water in air oxidises the rubber in tyres causing them to corrode. Over longer periods gas also diffuses out of tiny pores in rubber tyres. As a nitrogen molecule is larger than an oxygen molecule it leaks out of tyres three times slower than air, which maintains tyre pressure and therefore tread wear. All in all, using nitrogen in tyres can more than double their lifespan, although for the flimsy racing tyre which needs changing several times in a race nothings going to make that much difference."

 

[ChrisP]

Re: No! Don\'t give up - Chrispy read this!!

1. Having worked for BOC for 12 years there's a good chance I have come across the properties of nitrogen.
2. To date they use air in the tyres as there is no appreciable advantage to using nirogen. They find it better to train the drivers not to hit kerbs etc. More fuel saving through correct tyre pressure.(source, Transport manager BOC distribution UK).
3. Due to lower tyre tempretures (if correctly inflated) Oxygen / water vapour attack negligable in the average family car. (source National Tyres) Tyres should be filled from a compressor with a volume accumulator which is regularly drained. This will knock out most of the water vapour which is usualy less than 3% by volume. No NT don't carry cylinders of nitrogen to re-inflate comercial tyres at the road side as there is no demand for it and it would increase costs.

I rest my case

ChrisP


What do you mean the sea gull in front's walking !!!

 

[Chris_d]

Re: No! Don\'t give up - OK read this..

againest my better judgement to just let this go, try this:

http://www.merityre.co.uk/why_nitrogen.htm

Police forces across the country carried out roadside surveys to check tyre pressures
On average they found 75% of tyres checked had incorrect tyre pressures
Road Traffic Accident Statistics show that 86% of tyres have incorrect pressures
Tyres filled with Nitrogen will maintain their correct pressure for longer, because Nitrogen doesn't leak through the tyre's structure. Normal compressed air contains Oxygen and water vapour, both of which permeate through the tyre casing.

Better road holding
Longer tread life, up to 25% increase
Reduced fuel consumption, up to 5% reduction
No corrosion to the inside of the wheel
As tyre specialists, we recommend that all 5 tyres on your vehicle are refilled with nitrogen.
We charge £1.47 per wheel for this service.
Subsequent rechecks and nitrogen top ups (if required) are free of charge.


Incidently the nitrogen is supplied by BOC.

 

[tcm]

Re: well then! Not total garbage at all?

aha. Soo, sounds quite good and not total codswallop. BUT I agree that the salesman of said car for girlie got the resons wrong for why nitrogen might have been put in the tyres. After all, there's no reason for the salesperson to make it up - in aid of what? - obv nobody wd buy the car on the strength of nitrogen filled tyres, but quite poss that they cd have been?

 

[Chris_d]

Re: tcm have you...

... considered a job with the UN, your mediation skills
could be put to much better use, sorting more
serious arguments than two stubborn Chris's.

 

[tcm]

Re: ahem!

just had rather a massive coughing fit at the very idea. Not sure that you have been looking at this BB for very long? Cos if u had, you wd know that it's very rare indeed for me to do any mediation at all! Much more likely to stir things up. Especially with regard to any posts by claymore, coliholic, claymore, petem, barryD, claymore again, lots of others, but not paulineb cos she's a harmless girlie er oh heck.

Oh, and claymore went on the Grand banks trip as a guest sailor type on a powerboat .....and threw up all over the back of it! Teehee!

Alright, how much does the UN job pay? Or have i rather blown it?

 

[jfm]

F! designer welcome to BB!

Chris_d, just seen your profile. Motor racing + Oxfordshire. Bit unwise of Chrispy to argue with you about tyres So tell more, which team you work for? What d'ya do? Sounds very interesting. Does the boss have a massive Sunseeker? Have amateurish interest myself, engineering background but worked on F1 a lot from a different angle, namely the City, arranged purchase structure of 1/2 of BE's SLEC thing for Hellman and Friedman, and also done stuff for MacNally. TCM is actually an ex-Ferrari driver. He's not currently employed in that capacity as Schuey is obviously faster at it now....... though not by much according to dossier being compiled by French Police.....

 

[Chris_d]

Re: Oop\'s

Obviously didn't make that vague enough, not a
superstar though, I just design the electronicy wirey
bits, but after 15 years you get to know a bit about
all of it, well have too really or your out.
We had a driver with a Sunseeker once, but he never
even slept on it, but thats not what their designed for
I suppose.
Don't ask me about the legal/finance stuff though, I've
seen what happens if you cross BE, do you like baseball!

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Chris_d on Thu May 9 22:52:30 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>