sailors to participate in global scientific survey

AntarcticPilot

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As I understand it, this survey is aimed at oceanic measurements. I doubt if inshore waters would be of much interest to them as the conditions change too rapidly over short distances, and they wouldn't get enough reports to make statistically valid conclusions.
 

Gargleblaster

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I was also wondering if you would be able to measure while moving. I imagine the cd would drag behind you rather than drop to a measurable depth. so except for complete calms oceanic measurements may not be possible either.
 

Gargleblaster

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Another point about ocean sailing is that mobile phones and their APPS don't seem to work so well out there. I would love to participate in this sort of study as I think it is important. And while I could record the depth each time the boat comes to a halt, I would not be able to send it until I return.

I've done some personal studies on ocean temperatures in various parts of the North Atlantic particularly where you have the barrier between warm and cold currents and the direct ion and speed of flow which I find particularly interesting.

I might contact Plymouth University anyway as I am planning to set off on a long voyage shortly.
 

Rossynant

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The problem is so called (themselves) "scientists" would never believe real sailor with anything. Which I know, being a scientist and sailor. Can recall an incident when a sailor from Poland had actually encountered a giant squid time ago (taking his boat in warm embrace, himself included ;) ) and no-one believed him. Well, I believed, for one. Architeuthis it's called. Everybody knew this species exist, and somehow so called "science' denied.
Same went for megamouth shark ( Megachasma pelagios ) of which I have a photo from 30 years before it was "discovered"... ;)

Really, don't bother with any "scientific survey" unless you are a relative of some "approved" member of some university staff. Otherwise any work will be in vain.
None of so called "scientists" would care about real world anyway. Sorry to say this. But I am a scientist; to work in real world I had to establish my own "scientific company" as "universities" wouldn't care a d***...

That's why retired and sailing.
 

john_morris_uk

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I wouldn't be quite so cynical as some about taking part...

Plymouth University is a world renowned centre for Oceanographic research and the fact that they are going to use data from private individuals is irrelevant for at least a couple of reasons. Firstly they will probably have done some research to show how many errors there are from 'Jo publics' use of the home made measuring device and the results will take this into account. Secondly there are other areas of scientific research that use the public to good effect. Bird counts and astronomy use thousands and thousands of 'enthusiasts' to gather data.

If one unknown and unqualified person writes a scientific paper it will be hard for them to be taken seriously but that's not what is happening here.

You don't need a phone signal to gather the data. If you are mid ocean the iphone waits until you are next in range and asks permission to dump the data back to the university.

They appear to want data from everywhere except estuaries. Why not give it a go. I don't fancy stopping mid ocean every day to get a reading but if you are becalmed one day you could take a few. This sort if research relies on many thousands of readings over a long time to look for trends.
 
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Evadne

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As I understand it, this survey is aimed at oceanic measurements. I doubt if inshore waters would be of much interest to them as the conditions change too rapidly over short distances, and they wouldn't get enough reports to make statistically valid conclusions.

I can't speak for this particular project, but in general, a lot of the scientific interest in the UK at the moment is on the continental shelf and shelf break. So measurements in the Celtic and Irish seas, as well as the English channel and the seas off western Ireland and Scotland will be of particular interest to UK oceanographers. And measurements in the spring to summer are particularly valuable.

Glayva is right that you have to be stationary to make a measurement, but it should only take a few minutes, so heaving-to while you put the kettle on is fine.
 

AntarcticPilot

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I happened to talk to a friend from the National Oceanographic Centre earlier this week, and we had a chat about this experiment. A few points worth passing on arose:

  1. The experimental method is old, and very well-established. It was designed (perhaps 100 years ago) for use by untrained personnel.
  2. This type of experiment is called "crowd-sourcing", and has been gaining in popularity over the last decade or two. Projects like the BBC's "Springwatch" are valuable sources of information to scientists. Of course, there are also many computer based experiments of this nature. Nearer home, projects like "OpenStreetMap" and the Antares charts of the West of Scotland are similar in concept. I have reservations about this methodology in mapping, but in general it works.
  3. The advantage of crowd-sourcing is that a vastly increased number of observations can be gathered, improving the coverage and statistical reliability. Providing the experimental design is robust, there is no reason why observations by lay people should not be just as valid as those by trained scientists. The experimental design will soon identify unreliable or malicious observers.
  4. Concerning the matter of observations of rare organisms, the problem is that observers - trained or untrained - tend to see what they think they are seeing, and reports made of stressful or unusual events are not always reliable. The existence of Megalodon and Architeuthis could not be confirmed until specimens were at hand - observations alone are insufficient. However, I think most marine biologists accepted there was something out there - but without a specimen they could not know what.
 

charles_reed

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Many are going off at half cock (how unusual for this site ;-).
It's a very simple check to measure the depth of the phytoplankton level. All you need to do is measure when you can't see the Secchi disk and then let the marine biology unit at Plymouth have the detail of position and depth.
Pretty rough and ready but allows gathering a much larger population.

This might give people some background

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21547272
 

Odontella

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Thanks, we are interested in data from coastal waters, the continental shelf and the oceans.

We have had some great e-mails from sailors and the first data has come in form New Zealand and the Mediterranean Sea.

The study will only be as good as the number of people taking part though.

Please pass on the word

www.secchidisk.com

www.facebook.com/secchidisk

@secchiapp

Secchi app team
 

Odontella

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Hi,

You should always be able to receive a GPS signal, which enables the app

It is important that you enter the data where you obtain the GPS fix and take the measurement

However, we designed the app with sailors in mind.

The app does not need a network connection to work.

The Secchi Depth will be stored in the app as a 'pending submission' until you get a network connection. You will then be prompted to submit the data. You can decline to submit at this point in case you are roaming, and you can wait to submit the data later. A month of two delay in submission will not matter as this is a continuing project hopefully.

If there is anything we have not thought of we would like to know. Thanks

contact@secchidisk.org
 

Odontella

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Hi,

Thanks for you interest. we are hoping that coastal, shelf and oceanic sailors will take part. All measurements are interesting as you will be able to search the database by GPS location depending upon your study.

Some sailors may decide to take part by taking samples regularly (perhaps once, twice or more a month) from the same place, others may just take ad-hoc Secchi Depths on their travels. Everything is welcome.
 

Odontella

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Hi Antarctic Pilot

We're interested in all measurements and from anyone who would like to take part. Some may like to take repeated measurements form their local patch others may take ad hoc measurements as they travel. They are all useful and the more people that take part, the better every measurement will become.
 

Odontella

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Oh well, as I am a new member it appears that my replies to individual posts have all been piled up at the end of the thread as they awaited approval.

They were for all of you above, you may recognise the 'right replies'

Thank you for starting the discussion.

All the best
 

Resolution

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It is great that guys running the current survey are trying to encourage broad participation.
I am however a wee bit cynical about the starting premise per their website : " A recent study of global phytoplankton abundance over the last century concluded that global phytoplankton concentrations have declined due to rising sea surface temperatures as a consequence of current climate change."
Just how does a "recent survey" measure this abundance "over the last century"?
 
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