rogerthebodger
Well-known member
Yes my old mate I used Mr Google which is where I got the 150 GT from.
Sailing yacht radar visibility
- Thread starter The Professional
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Yes my old mate I used Mr Google which is where I got the 150 GT from.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
So you already knew the answers to post #93
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
The case against fitting one is complacency and their value in comparison with being proactive, having radar, AIS and diligent watch keeping. I'm considerably more worried about hitting a whale than a 200,000t bulk carrier but fog is not common here - unlike whales. Whales are a real nuisance as they appear to have copied yacht owners who ride the current going south and skirt the beach going north (unlike the bulk carriers, who do not skirt the beaches).
Jonathan
That's also my concern where I sail.
Mark 1 eyeball is the best safety device I have as like you we do not get much fog.
I used to have a tubular radar reflector but it got blown down and following all the reports about how useless the passive radar reflectors are I have not bothered to replace it just rely on my steel hull and lots of stainless steel fittings . rigging and aluminium mast
This is the legal requirement of our safety authority
ONLY required on power driven vessels of 9 metres or more in overall length operating west of Port Alfred. It is strongly recommended by SAMSA that vessels less than 9 metres in overall length, sailing vessels and vessels operating East of Port Alfred also carry a permanently fitted radar reflector
So its only compulsory on larger power vessels operating along a certain part of out coast .
As I have a sail vessel and operate mainly east of Port Alfred I don't legally need one.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
South Africa is a signatory of SOLAS, so you're required to have a radar reflector.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
Yes I am aware of that but don't forget we are a thirds world country and although we have all the laws and regulations and some of the best personal protection laws in the world (IMHO) we fall short on enforcement.
Even through I don't have a radar reflector I have been passed as ea worth up our safety authority (SAMSA) we must be inspected very year and a Local General Safety Certificate issued if not we cannot legally leave our mooring. Our harbour authority also require a copy for my boat to be allowed in their waters.
As an example we are a signatory of the ITU and here is an online data base of vessels with call sign and MMSI numbers. You will not find my boat on their data base.
My MMSI is 601 116400 (fixed) same for HH
Call sign ZA5734
Registered name Distantshaws
Registration Number 20941
Check it out, If I and wrong pleases let me know
We have to pay for our station which I have done but not received the license from ICASA (like Ofcom)
Oh its fun living in the third world as the authorities make up rules to suit themselves. This is why I am taking legal action against out safety authority for breach of my and all pleasure sailors consumer rights.
Any country can enact any laws and regulations with in their territorial waters and with a registered vessel the law of the flag country is the law that pertains on that vessel. This is in accordance to the UN law of the sea convention to which South Africa is also a signatory.
Dellquay13
Well-known member
A century isn't a big deal in geology.
[/QUOTE]
but it can be a deal in the accuracy of measurement s of where the geology is, especially charted depths. Many parts of the admiralty charts of the Pembrokeshire coast are based on surveys done in the reign of Queen Victoria
[/QUOTE]
but it can be a deal in the accuracy of measurement s of where the geology is, especially charted depths. Many parts of the admiralty charts of the Pembrokeshire coast are based on surveys done in the reign of Queen Victoria
Daedelus
Well-known member
I cannot think of anyone who would think that because they have a radar reflector they no longer need to worry. I have one fitted and my usual reaction is "I hope to God they have seen me" and am planning how best to avoid them if they haven't.
It seems daft not to fit one as it may well increase your radar echo and the ultimate argument might be that many insurance companies look for an excuse to reduce payout in the event of any accident, if the big ship says "never saw him on radar - and he didn't have a reflector" the insurance company might reasonably say that they are attributing part of the blame to the unnoticed vessel.
It seems daft not to fit one as it may well increase your radar echo and the ultimate argument might be that many insurance companies look for an excuse to reduce payout in the event of any accident, if the big ship says "never saw him on radar - and he didn't have a reflector" the insurance company might reasonably say that they are attributing part of the blame to the unnoticed vessel.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
Nobody enforces SOLAS for pleasure vessels here either. You occasionally see claims that non-compliance may invalidate insurance, but somebody always claims that about absolutely anything from "Using LED bulbs" to "Buying stripey toothpaste".
Nevertheless I feel very much safer for knowing that at the bottom of a locker I have a rather battered laminated sheet of distress signals, prepared by a previous owner.
jamie N
Well-known member
On my boat with an active reflector, but no radar (it's a Folkboat FFS!), I find that the 'ping' from the unit being activated, reassures me that the 'other' vessel has at least got an indication of my existence. Whether or not the man on the wheel has seen it is a different thing of course.
Topcat47
Well-known member
With a new 30' sailing yacht costing in the region of £130,000, and a good radar reflector costing ~ £200, who is so tight they can't or won't have one fitted from new? My Nich' 26 cost me £9,000 second hand and I fitted the best I could find at the time when I bought it. Surely it's a no brainer.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
A physicist had a horseshoe hanging on the door of his laboratory. His colleagues were surprised and asked whether he believed that it would bring luck to his experiments. He answered: ‘No, I don’t believe in superstitions. But I have been told that it works even if you don’t believe in it.’
-- From "A Random Walk in Science" (IoP)
wully1
Well-known member
Erm.... Then why aren’t all new boats sold equipped with all req SOLAS stuff?
If a boat is operated other than as a pleasure vessel it must comply with the relevant regulations, such as the Code of Practice for Intended Pleasure Vessels in Temporary Commercial Use at Sea or the Codes of Practice for Small Commercial Vessels.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
Because there is no requirement for boat builders to fit radar reflectors.
Non pleasure vessels are irrelevant to this thread, which is discussing pleasure vessels. Pleasure vessels are required to fit radar reflectors, as quoted in post #96:
"SOLAS V 19.2.1.7 requires vessels if less than 150 gross tonnage and if practicable, [shall have] a radar reflector or other means, to enable detection by ships navigating by radar at both 9 and 3 GHz. "
I'm not saying that SOLAS Police will be patrolling the pontoons looking for boats without radar reflectors, but that doesn't alter the fact that it is a requirement.
sarabande
Well-known member
Paul, SOLAS regs are flexible in the way they are drafted.
Viz: "if practicable", "radar reflector or other means". Common sense and the wallet say a piece of tin up on the mast or a halyard is the easy way to enable some form of bounce back for enquiring radar pulses, but other more techy kit does make the boat compliant without a radar reflector.
Viz: "if practicable", "radar reflector or other means". Common sense and the wallet say a piece of tin up on the mast or a halyard is the easy way to enable some form of bounce back for enquiring radar pulses, but other more techy kit does make the boat compliant without a radar reflector.
wully1
Well-known member
The International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) is an international maritime treaty which sets minimum safety standards in the construction, equipment and operation of merchant ships. The convention requires signatory flag states to ensure that ships flagged by them comply with at least these standards.
There is a clue in the paragraph about what SOLAS applies to...
There is a clue in the paragraph about what SOLAS applies to...
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
And you think you're not covered by certain merchant shipping regs ? Oh dear.
SOLAS V Regulations | Pleasure Craft Regulations | Regulations | Knowledge & Advice | RYA - Royal Yachting Association
SOLAS V has been in force for nearly 10 years, disappointing that you're not aware of them.
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PaulRainbow
Well-known member
Yes Tim, i'm aware of the wording , i'm simply pointing out its existence. Seems that not everyone is aware of it and some even think it doesn't apply to them.
Given the lack of enforement it may be a moot point, but regardless, the regulations do exist.
wully1
Well-known member
I already comply with having a radar reflector or other means device fitted as high as possible - it’s wott holds my sails up.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
Neeves
Well-known member
Sadly most Australian yachts are also non compliant - there is a dearth of radar reflectors.
Yachts run down by commercial vessels in Australian waters are very uncommon, yachts run into by jest skis are very common.
I confess that if we were run down by a commercial vessel the least of my worries, as I flounder about, would be whether my insurance would want to argue.
Self preservation is a very powerful incentive to keep a sensible watch.
As I mentioned my fear is hitting, or being hit by, a whale. I might have a different view if I sailed UK or The Channel/North/Irish Sea and I might instal AIS in those same waters - here less necessary. I would not discourage anyone fitting a reflector or AIS (in Oz waters) but I might suggest they add radar to their options, instead of. We user radar as an aid to navigation (for example tracking thunderstorms) which are as much a menace as whales (and the latter can be at plague proportions) and an ability to dodge thunderstorms is high up my priority list along with the pesky whales. - Large commercial vessels festooned with lights really don't figure as a danger. I simply do not expect a 100,000t bulk carrier to give way to me - I'm a wimp - I give way to might.
With practical confirmation that we are identifiable at 16nm I'm not sure what other additions would increase the range at which we would be identified. This seems to meet the 'or other means' as might also a steel hull. I worked with Navico on their radar when they were making unsustainable claims of effective range but we did confirm picking up commercial vessels at 20nm was perfectly feasible, land at 35 nm was very questionable. None of this caters for operator stupidity - on either side - and that is the weak point (which SOLAS appears to ignore.
We also carry parachute flares - just in case and we would have no hesitation in using them - if warranted.
Jonathan
Yachts run down by commercial vessels in Australian waters are very uncommon, yachts run into by jest skis are very common.
I confess that if we were run down by a commercial vessel the least of my worries, as I flounder about, would be whether my insurance would want to argue.
Self preservation is a very powerful incentive to keep a sensible watch.
As I mentioned my fear is hitting, or being hit by, a whale. I might have a different view if I sailed UK or The Channel/North/Irish Sea and I might instal AIS in those same waters - here less necessary. I would not discourage anyone fitting a reflector or AIS (in Oz waters) but I might suggest they add radar to their options, instead of. We user radar as an aid to navigation (for example tracking thunderstorms) which are as much a menace as whales (and the latter can be at plague proportions) and an ability to dodge thunderstorms is high up my priority list along with the pesky whales. - Large commercial vessels festooned with lights really don't figure as a danger. I simply do not expect a 100,000t bulk carrier to give way to me - I'm a wimp - I give way to might.
With practical confirmation that we are identifiable at 16nm I'm not sure what other additions would increase the range at which we would be identified. This seems to meet the 'or other means' as might also a steel hull. I worked with Navico on their radar when they were making unsustainable claims of effective range but we did confirm picking up commercial vessels at 20nm was perfectly feasible, land at 35 nm was very questionable. None of this caters for operator stupidity - on either side - and that is the weak point (which SOLAS appears to ignore.
We also carry parachute flares - just in case and we would have no hesitation in using them - if warranted.
Jonathan
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