Sailing Yacht / Marine Boat Handling Skills

[double-dutch]

Hi, I'm slowly working towards my Yachtmaster qualifications. I have all the qualifying passages, miles, and theory and generally feel pretty comfortable on a sailing yacht in normal/moderate conditions.

I don't own my own yacht and I've charted in Greece a number of times but always end up with people more experienced in parking boats who just "take over" so I just don't have enough experience/confidence in doing that and obviously, that's key before I move on.

Can anyone recommend an approach/course for gaining this missing experience? The Solent is convenient for me and so is Portugal (long story....)

 

[srm]

Best bet is probably to find an (ex?) YM instructor for one to one coaching, but lack of a boat could be a problem though a weekend charter may resolve that. I have done this with a few people in the past.

However, the way most of us learnt, and keep in practice, was on our own boats.

Just a thought but if aiming for the YM practical exam some experience beyond "normal/moderate conditions" could be beneficial. During my exam I was given a theoretical situation but then the examiner queried my response. Being able to tell him "it worked when I did it" changed the whole tone of the questioning.

 

[wonkywinch]

Do you feel confident enough to do the YM exam straight off? If not, then a Yachtmaster Prep course will give you the boat, the instructor, some competent crew and an examiner at the end of it all. Loads of schools around the Solent, I can recommend Hamble School of Yachting (no connection, just happy customer of several of their courses).

 

[johnalison]

I think it is a difficult question. There really is no substitute for time and repetition, and this means months or years, and this is not going to come cheap unless you have access to a boat. Even a week’s course is only going to give a partial experience in a limited range of conditions. I tend to fall back on the old adage that if you can handle a sailing dinghy and even park it under sail you are going to be at an advantage, and this is always going to be the cheapest way of learning spatial skills. I myself came through the chaotic process of messing about in all sorts of boats, mostly inland, before owning a succession of cruisers starting with small ones. This means that I am not fazed by unusual conditions of wind or tide, but it doesn’t mean that I always get it right, though I have learned how not to get into a fix.

I hope that you can be more assertive and get the relevant practice. Fortunately, most modern cruising boats are very forgiving, handle fairly predictably, and have masses of power, though this latter can also be a liability.

 

[bitbaltic]

I’d suggest just booking a day skipper practical and taking your turn to berth the boat. I am assuming this is about cruiser handling under power in a marina. The problem with finding just any chap with a boat and asking to park it is that charter and sailing school boats are much of a much mess (AWB with neutral behaviour) whereas the guy at the yacht club prob has a seventies long keeler and wants help parking it for a reason.

 

[jac]

Hamble School of Yachting do a one day course that is purely pontoon bashing Under power. You don’t get a certificate but I found it really good. Try and go at about this time of year when it’s a bit quieter and probably fewer students on your course

 

[Refueler]

Are you member of a club ?

If you join a club - then offer up to crew ... some owners are OK to let you cox .... so you get the practice ...

To round off - maybe a short School course ....

Yes - its like learning to drive - if its not an Instructor - you could develop bad habits - but boats are not cars .... the idea is to get boat sorted in best, most practical and reasonable way.

 

[double-dutch]

Do you feel confident enough to do the YM exam straight off? If not, then a Yachtmaster Prep course will give you the boat, the instructor, some competent crew and an examiner at the end of it all. Loads of schools around the Solent, I can recommend Hamble School of Yachting (no connection, just happy customer of several of their courses).

I believe I am comfortable enough to do the exam after a Prep Course but I would like to go into this Prep Course with this skill under my belt. (if that makes sense)

 

[double-dutch]

I’d suggest just booking a day skipper practical and taking your turn to berth the boat. I am assuming this is about cruiser handling under power in a marina. The problem with finding just any chap with a boat and asking to park it is that charter and sailing school boats are much of a much mess (AWB with neutral behaviour) whereas the guy at the yacht club prob has a seventies long keeler and wants help parking it for a reason.

Thanks for the suggestion and I've already done Day Skipper Practical but with 4 people on a boat, a 4 day course I probably parked the boat 3-4 times max. It's just not enough.

 

[double-dutch]

Hamble School of Yachting do a one day course that is purely pontoon bashing Under power. You don’t get a certificate but I found it really good. Try and go at about this time of year when it’s a bit quieter and probably fewer students on your course

Thanks and that's one of the schools I looked at as an option. Just wondered if anyone had any other suggestions

 

[double-dutch]

Are you member of a club ?

If you join a club - then offer up to crew ... some owners are OK to let you cox .... so you get the practice ...

To round off - maybe a short School course ....

Yes - its like learning to drive - if its not an Instructor - you could develop bad habits - but boats are not cars .... the idea is to get boat sorted in best, most practical and reasonable way.

I was a member of a club that had a few yachts and I did do a days boat handling course with them but again, with 4 people on a boat, you probably get 5-6 chances to park the boat on that day with those wind and tide conditions and I just feel that's not enough.

 

[double-dutch]

I appreciate this was a difficult question and thanks for your replies. Just booking another course may be the best thing to do. I totally understand that anyone with their own yacht wants to take responsibility for parking it. Boats and Damage are expensive

I'm sure I'm not the only person with this challenge but it's difficult to fix, I appreciate that as well but just for fun, look at my Sailing Log (I know that loads of people will now go "you're not ready" but that's not what I'm asking for, and I will definitely do a Yacht Master prep course before I try doing the exam):

- Been sailing yachts for 7 years
- Have 3,000 miles over 110 different trips probably on 15 different yachts (school, charter, friends)
- Parked a yacht, probably 20 times in that period. That's 3 times a year

 

[jac]

I appreciate this was a difficult question and thanks for your replies. Just booking another course may be the best thing to do. I totally understand that anyone with their own yacht wants to take responsibility for parking it. Boats and Damage are expensive

I'm sure I'm not the only person with this challenge but it's difficult to fix, I appreciate that as well but just for fun, look at my Sailing Log (I know that loads of people will now go "you're not ready" but that's not what I'm asking for, and I will definitely do a Yacht Master prep course before I try doing the exam):

- Been sailing yachts for 7 years
- Have 3,000 miles over 110 different trips probably on 15 different yachts (school, charter, friends)
- Parked a yacht, probably 20 times in that period. That's 3 times a year

Nothing wrong with that log - you probably have a lot more experience and variety than people who sail their own boat week in week out around the same patch so you're ready.

You've correctly pointed out your gaps - mooring. The only thing to do there is practice. I would do the one day course and then maybe do a charter where you are the skipper - don't let others take over

 

[Wansworth]

One thing that has been discussed onthe forum is the skipper and interaction with a crew as the exam involves a crewedboat ,having not done it but worked on small coasters getting a crew to do what you want needs skill .

 

[RJJ]

On paper you are perfectly experienced enough to become a YM and own your own boat.

In reality it's down to you. Are you "one of those" people who wants the ticket, thinks the ticket proves their expertise, and will still be making the same mistakes in 30k miles time? Or are you reasonably critical of yourself, any given boat, and Conditions, such that you approach a situation with due caution, seek advice, mainly operate within your limits, and carefully push your limits in an appropriate manner?

The fact you asked the question as you have indicates the latter ?.

So what to do?

Dinghy (my recommendation)
YouTube (seriously)
Charter holiday
Solo instructor.
Courses.

I would try for a combination of the above.

Nb if the instructor is any good, then being one of 4 students on a yacht being moored 20 times doesn't mean you practiced 5 times. If means you got to observe and critique 15 times, especially with regard to the important element of crew briefing and management.

Nb2 there's nothing wrong on taking over a yacht with doing a few pirouettes in the harbour/ around a buoy to get a feel for her. Also if it's breezy, taking a practice run, and thinking through your bailout option.

Nb3 take it slowly and you have more time and risk less damage

Nb4 in the occasions where you don't have much time or space, e.g. entering a marina cross-tide, it's less down to the driving skill and more down to "have I thought this through?"

Nb5 if it's really bloody frightening, do it another way. Tie up alongside somewhere else and ask someone for an assist. Or occupy the berth opposite and warp across. Everyone, especially marina operators, prefer to be slightly inconvenienced rather than cope with damage. And most people just each other to succeed and enjoy their boating.

Nb6 most boats generically perform alike. Average White Boats turn in a short space, their bows blow downwind, they are good at reversing. Longer keeled boats don't slide sideways as quickly but are more challenging astern. Take advice on your boat from fellow owners.

 

[flaming]

When I did YM I didn't have an awful lot more boat parking experience than the OP. A bit more, but not masses.
At the time I had a pretty good grasp of an approach that worked more than 90% of the time. And that was perfectly good enough firstly to pass the exam, and then to safely skipper boats in most situations.
I would say that to get from where the OP is now to that situation, the best bet would be something like the 1 day boat handling course with Hamble School of Yachting. (Who I did all my courses with).

It's been the racing (and hence leaving the marina pretty much come what may) that really got my parking a lot more polished.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Depending on how much sailing you're doing / want to do, you might look at www.phoenixyachtclub.co.uk - the club is quite into skills development and I've know their skippers make a point of doing pontoon bashing when the opportunity arises. In fact, I think they may have a day or two annually for teaching and practising it.

You won't be able to just take out one of their boats and do nothing else (unless the weather / circumstances are unsuitable for nothing else) - I think their minimum crew is 3, so you'd need to join an existing booking, but you'd probably find the skipper was amenable to allowing you some pontoon bashing at the beginning or end of each day, and to coaching you. Some of their skippers are RYA instructors, so their coaching is free; RYA qualifications are done at cost.

 

[double-dutch]

Thank you all for your sound advice and will carefully look at all options provided. @RJJ - I want to come back to your post specifically. We are all getting a bit older, and I'm getting closer to retirement. When I do - I would like to do something useful with my time and having sailed for the London Sailing Trust (Rona) a few times, I learned how rewarding it is to teach kids how to sail and I would like to do more of that when I retire, hopefully for a charity (and I don't want to get paid for it).

For that - I need the skills, need the YM ticket and an instructor rating. That's been the plan for many years and I've made a lot of progress but as posted, lack a few skills I need to brush up on.

Thanks again for all your valuable comments.

 

[KompetentKrew]

www.TallShips.org take volunteers and mentor them to YM skipper / mate level.

 

[johnalison]

On paper you are perfectly experienced enough to become a YM and own your own boat.

In reality it's down to you. Are you "one of those" people who wants the ticket, thinks the ticket proves their expertise, and will still be making the same mistakes in 30k miles time? Or are you reasonably critical of yourself, any given boat, and Conditions, such that you approach a situation with due caution, seek advice, mainly operate within your limits, and carefully push your limits in an appropriate manner?

The fact you asked the question as you have indicates the latter ?.

So what to do?

Dinghy (my recommendation)
YouTube (seriously)
Charter holiday
Solo instructor.
Courses.

I would try for a combination of the above.

Nb if the instructor is any good, then being one of 4 students on a yacht being moored 20 times doesn't mean you practiced 5 times. If means you got to observe and critique 15 times, especially with regard to the important element of crew briefing and management.

Nb2 there's nothing wrong on taking over a yacht with doing a few pirouettes in the harbour/ around a buoy to get a feel for her. Also if it's breezy, taking a practice run, and thinking through your bailout option.

Nb3 take it slowly and you have more time and risk less damage

Nb4 in the occasions where you don't have much time or space, e.g. entering a marina cross-tide, it's less down to the driving skill and more down to "have I thought this through?"

Nb5 if it's really bloody frightening, do it another way. Tie up alongside somewhere else and ask someone for an assist. Or occupy the berth opposite and warp across. Everyone, especially marina operators, prefer to be slightly inconvenienced rather than cope with damage. And most people just each other to succeed and enjoy their boating.

Nb6 most boats generically perform alike. Average White Boats turn in a short space, their bows blow downwind, they are good at reversing. Longer keeled boats don't slide sideways as quickly but are more challenging astern. Take advice on your boat from fellow owners.

I agree with all that, especially nb3. It is very evident from watching inexperienced helms in a marina that they are often scared of going slowly and everything is done with a hearty dose of power. There are occasions when I choose to do a crash stop, such as when I have to moor against my prop wash and against the wind, but slower is better and usually less expensive. I took great pleasure in watching a professional crew bring a massive powerboat into a tight berth at Hamble Point on one occasion. It was all done very slowly with just the odd blip of the engine and no bow thruster.