Sailing Vessel impeding Svitzer tug in Felixstowe Channel yesterday

[ex-Gladys]

Had a land day out yesterday and finished up at Landguard… Had the HH VHF with us so listened to VTS and a yacht got "called out" for passing in front of a tug, and they were going to lengths to find the vessel... Sounded pretty close to me....

 

[johnalison]

Wasn't me. Too dull and cold to tempt me out, though we had intended to pass that way.

 

[Elemental]

Dull and cold? We had a sparkling sail up the Stour yesterday afternoon. 17-18kt over the deck in wall to wall sunshine. Granted, the morning was dull and windless but we'd had BBQ on Wrabness beach on Sat eve and a nice walk around the Wrabness environs on Sunday mornng. All in all a good weekend.

Edit:
wasn't us either ...

 

[johnalison]

Dull and cold? We had a sparkling sail up the Stour yesterday afternoon. 17-18kt over the deck in wall to wall sunshine. Granted, the morning was dull and windless but we'd had BBQ on Wrabness beach on Sat eve and a nice walk around the Wrabness environs on Sunday mornng. All in all a good weekend.

Edit:
wasn't us either ...

That's all right for you inland sailors but were stuck out at Walton. The problem was really that we were faced with motoring pretty well all the way to Ipswich, and then motoring back in a couple of days, mostly against the tide.

 

[Triassic]

I'm not advocating reckless abandon of all rules but might of way is generally far more effective that right of way so if someone in a sail boat is daft enough to cross something like a tug then my money is on the tug......

Putting my practical head back on it couldn't have been that close if they couldn't identify the vessel...... or is the tug skipper admitting to keeping such a poor lookout that this sailboat caught them by surprise, and then made such a quick getaway they couldn't make a note of sail number, names or other identifying features, let alone take a picture of it?

 

[ex-Gladys]

It was identified (I can't remember the name), and hailed on 71... and the Harbour Patrol launch went after it...

 

[john_morris_uk]

I'm not advocating reckless abandon of all rules but might of way is generally far more effective that right of way so if someone in a sail boat is daft enough to cross something like a tug then my money is on the tug......

As there's no such thing as right of way the might of way doesn't come into it (and is a silly and irrelevant phrase anyway).

It appears that the IRPCS weren't being obeyed - hence the sailing vessel being pursued.

 

[PaulRainbow]

It is all too common to hear Harwich VTS hailing some numpty in the shipping channel, not monitoring 71 and all too often not even monitoring 16. I've heard them calling and calling, first on 71, then on 16, finally getting a response, to advice the numpty that he is about to be run down by the Stenna ferry or a gazillion ton container ship.

 

[Triassic]

As there's no such thing as right of way the might of way doesn't come into it (and is a silly and irrelevant phrase anyway).

It appears that the IRPCS weren't being obeyed - hence the sailing vessel being pursued.

Sorry, forgot any attempts at humour on here aren't always detected.....

If you would like me to word it more seriously there is a time and place for regulations, and a time for common sense. In my view anyone who is daft enough to put themselves even remotely in danger of colliding with a significantly bigger vessel is being pretty stupid, or in the very least inconsiderate. Unless of course they weren't in such a situation at all, hence my second paragraph.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Sorry, forgot any attempts at humour on here aren't always detected.....

If you would like me to word it more seriously there is a time and place for regulations, and a time for common sense. In my view anyone who is daft enough to put themselves even remotely in danger of colliding with a significantly bigger vessel is being pretty stupid, or in the very least inconsiderate. Unless of course they weren't in such a situation at all, hence my second paragraph.

No problem and apologies if I was having a sense of humour failure. I have an ongoing irritation with people who say things like, "I just get out of the way of everything" which ends up with erratic and (from the bigger vessel's point of view) unpredictable and annoying behavIour by small boats. However I don't think that anyone suggests that small or large vessels should stand on to the point of being in danger of being run down.

 

[nortada]

No problem and apologies if I was having a sense of humour failure. I have an ongoing irritation with people who say things like, "I just get out of the way of everything" which ends up with erratic and (from the bigger vessel's point of view) unpredictable and annoying behavIour by small boats. However I don't think that anyone suggests that small or large vessels should stand on to the point of being in danger of being run down.

And certainly not in the approaches to Harwich!

As locals all know there is a small ship channel at Harwich, which is great if you are approaching from the south west and heading up to Manningtree. Unfortunately if you are heading towards Ipswich at some point you are going to have to cross the approaches to Harwich in the big ship turning area.

Aware of others potential problems, I never sail this bit but put the donk on and act accordingly. But suspect I am in a minority because some of the bolder (if not older) even plan their race courses through this congested bit of water, which can make life very interesting

 

[Hydrozoan]

And certainly not in the approaches to Harwich!

As locals all know there is a small ship channel at Harwich, which is great if you are approaching from the south west and heading up to Manningtree. Unfortunately if you are heading towards Ipswich at some point you are going to have to cross the approaches to Harwich in the big ship turning area.

Aware of others potential problems, I never sail this bit but put the donk on and act accordingly. But suspect I am in a minority because some of the bolder (if not older) even plan their race courses through this congested bit of water, which can make life very interesting

I seem to recall in our earlier days a race start in the small ship channel, and vowing then to proceed under motor if we ever encountered such again – though in fairness we never have. I am happy to sail across the turning area with care and constant look-out, but anticipation of the tugs and other harbour vessels’ movements (and yachts for that matter!) is indeed more tricky than with the container and cruise ships.

Anyway, it wasn’t me either as I was on the opposite side of Britain, having been encouraged to end a few days’ walking with a 2100 foot Welsh peak - on the way to which a bit of breeze to accompany the sunshine would have been very welcome too.

 

[LittleSister]

However I don't think that anyone suggests that small or large vessels should stand on to the point of being in danger of being run down.

Indeed, and the ColRegs specifically say one mustn't!

 

[Triassic]

I have an ongoing irritation with people who say things like, "I just get out of the way of everything" which ends up with erratic and (from the bigger vessel's point of view) unpredictable and annoying behavIour by small boats.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I get out of the way of everything but one of the advantages of having a small, relatively fast, and manoeuvrable boat is that it is extremely easy to adjust ones course so that you don't cause another skipper undue concern, regardless of who is the stand on vessel. I don't think such action has to be erratic or unpredictable, in fact early decisive decisions often serve to reassure others that they need not concern themselves with you.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I get out of the way of everything but one of the advantages of having a small, relatively fast, and manoeuvrable boat is that it is extremely easy to adjust ones course so that you don't cause another skipper undue concern, regardless of who is the stand on vessel. I don't think such action has to be erratic or unpredictable, in fact early decisive decisions often serve to reassure others that they need not concern themselves with you.

Coming from a mobo background i have a similar philosophy, it being easy enough to make a change of course. I had one or two lectures over on the mobo forum about Colregs and standing on etc, but the lecturers were the ones with the poor understanding. If you make your course changes in good time, a risk of collision does not exist at that time, therefore no-one is stand on or give way vessel, you are free to make course changes as you see fit. Of course, you don't make changes that would confuse the other vessels skipper.

 

[johnalison]

I have a very simple solution, in that I sail with my wife, and there is an act of parliament which bars scaring women when at sea.

 

[nortada]

I have a very simple solution, in that I sail with my wife, and there is an act of parliament which bars scaring women when at sea.

Is that the same as the horses one

 

[TLouth7]

It appears that the IRPCS weren't being obeyed - hence the sailing vessel being pursued.

I am intrigued that this would be the case. Surely there can't be many areas in the harbour where a tug would be restricted in its ability to manoeuvre*? Obviously when engaged in towing/pushing/picking up a tow things would be different. I can't find any byelaws that modify the COLREGs in this regard.

is the tug skipper admitting to keeping such a poor lookout that this sailboat caught them by surprise, and then made such a quick getaway they couldn't make a note of sail number, names or other identifying features, let alone take a picture of it?

Plenty of yachts are pretty unidentifiable, we have no visible name or sail number for example. If we weren't listening you would have to track and then hail us.

As locals all know there is a small ship channel at Harwich

I must profess my ignorance. Are you referring to the recommended yacht track?

http://www.visitmyharbour.com/harbo...C0003393211/harwich-and-felixstowe-chart-2017

I never sail this bit but put the donk on and act accordingly. But suspect I am in a minority because some of the bolder (if not older) even plan their race courses through this congested bit of water, which can make life very interesting

Out of interest, which areas of the harbour and approaches would you not sail through? I dislike sailing inshore around Landguard point, but would do so if coming from the North at certain states of the tide. Otherwise the only bit where you have to interact with shipping is crossing the Stour entrance, which isn't quite as busy as the Felixstowe side (though it may be harder to predict exactly where stuff is going).

I have never heard of a race starting in the channel (in the harbour or approaches), and in fact when racing you have to stay out of the channel (or at least pass outside the buoys). Further up the Orwell of course all the club lines stretch right across...

*Perhaps the tugs permanently show restricted in ability to manoeuvre day shapes, in which case a yacht would normally have to keep clear.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I am intrigued that this would be the case. Surely there can't be many areas in the harbour where a tug would be restricted in its ability to manoeuvre*? Obviously when engaged in towing/pushing/picking up a tow things would be different. I can't find any byelaws that modify the COLREGs in this regard.

*Perhaps the tugs permanently show restricted in ability to manoeuvre day shapes, in which case a yacht would normally have to keep clear.

Its very rare (in my experience) to find a tug and tow NOT showing RAM. Officially without showing RAM the tow has exactly the same status as a power driven vessel, hence they invariably put RAM up and gain rights... Perhaps I should have been more explicit and detailed in my response? Doesn't the Harbour Bylaw say something about small craft keeping clear of vessels in the channel or am I reading the wrong bylaws??

 

[TLouth7]

Its very rare (in my experience) to find a tug and tow NOT showing RAM.

I do not know the details of the incident, but I inferred from the OP that this was a tug not engaged in towing. As such you wouldn't necessarily assume it was RAM unless it was showing the day shapes.

On the other hand, having consulted the byelaws (as opposed to the guidance for leisure sailors) I find the following potentially relevant rules:

18. Vessels to Keep Clear of Deep Water Channel
A vessel which is not confined to the Deep Water Channel by reason of her
draught shall keep clear of the Deep Water Channel when necessary to avoid
impeding the movement of a vessel which is proceeding in, and by reason of
her draught is confined to, that channel.

Not sure how this is different to standard COLREGs.

19. Vessel Entering Navigable Channel
A vessel shall not enter the navigable channel so as to hazard or impede the
movement of any other vessel underway in that channel.

As I read it this is applicable to all vessels, and could result in some interesting situations when in the vicinity of other yachts at the edge of the channel. Clearly codifies good practice w.r.t. not crossing in front of ships, and may have applied in the incident in OP. Especially relevant when crossing the Stour entrance, as you must keep clear of any vessel underway in the channel.

35. Vessels to have Names Marked
The Owner of a vessel which is not registered as a ship under the Merchant
Shipping Act 1894 or the Merchant Shipping Act 1983 and marked
accordingly shall ensure that the vessel is marked conspicuously with its
name or other means of identification unless otherwise exempted by the
Authority.

Perhaps not relevant to the situation from OP, but interesting nonetheless and a rule that I currently fall foul of.

49. Small Vessels to Keep Clear of Berths and Anchorages
A small vessel shall not obstruct or impede the movement of any other vessel
in any anchorage or the approach to any berth.

Probably not relevant in the open water of the harbour.

50. Obstructions to Large Vessels
Yachts, cruisers and power boats shall not make use of the navigable
channel or approaches to wharves, piers and jetties in such a way as to
cause obstruction to large vessels using the Harbour.

This is the key one here, does a tug count as a large vessel? I would argue not, certainly upriver in the Orwell I would expect it to keep clear just like any other power vessel (unless it was showing day shapes). Where does one draw the line? Pilot vessels are no larger than some large leisure vessels. On the other hand there is no need to go around annoying the HHA if you can reasonably avoid it.

Apologies to the OP for the thread drift, but as a local I was interested to see the actual rules that apply in the harbour (and approaches).

All text in italics from:
http://hha.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Byelaws.pdf