Sailing up wind

[William_H]

I love to race my little boat which means lots of up wind sailing against other boats. To me that makes it a sport. Yes I know some on this forum say "gentlemen don't sail up wind".
Anyway my friend Jim asked for advice on sailing up wind faster. Particularly helming. He has a typical 30 ft fin keel boat. Here is my advice. He certainly improved a lot yesterday and I thought perhaps others might benefit. or perhaps it is just obvious.
Anyway I suggested he monitor his speed on GPS. (water speed would be just as good.) when sailing hard on the wind.
You need to relate the speed to your angle to the wind. If you have plenty of wind so the boat can easily reach hull speed (About 20% more than square root of water line length in feet.) then you need to sail up wind at a water speed a bit less than hull speed. If you find yourself going too slow then you must be pinching too close to the wind. If you find your self meeting hull speed then perhaps you are not pinching close enough to the wind.
The boat can not exceed hull speed without serious amount of push power. This push power can only come from not sailing close to the wind. So far better in going for a windward point to sacrifice some of that push power and speed for pointing higher.
All this assumes you have plenty of wind and you have the right sized sails correctly set for beating. Once you get the feel for the correct speed then you can just concentrate on sail actions (luffing) to keep up with wind shifts. Just keep checking that speed. Of course the best way to measure and improve your helming on the wind is with a similar boat next to you going to the same place. ol'will

 

[dom]

I’d add telltales for sure; really help getting the boat into gear. As to which gear, TWS and STW will be helpful.

Get the hang of them and one can begin!

 

[ghostlymoron]

What's TWS?

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

+1 on the telltales, and I'll add wind the jib/Genoa in properly. That's normally about 2" off the spreader end on most boats.

 

[dom]

What's TWS?

Oops, I told the iPad to recognise ‘TWS’, so now it changes ‘STW’ to ‘TWS’! Now edited, tks.

 

[RichardS]

Oops, I told the iPad to recognise ‘TWS’, so now it changes ‘STW’ to ‘TWS’! Now edited, tks.

I'm not sure that you've answered the question .... but it's presumably True Wind Speed?

Richard

 

[ProDave]

Is it not far simpler to enter your destination into your GPS and sail for maximum VMG?

 

[langstonelayabout]

I just thought this post was piffle. It looks like it was copied off someone else's website.

I'm surprised that a person who has posted 11,261 times is posting such basic stuff. If frequency of posting and understanding/competence in our chosen sport align I would expect content worthy of a Frank Bethwaite book.

Or is it just a troll?

 

[dom]

Is it not far simpler to enter your destination into your GPS and sail for maximum VMG?

Richard, yes I meant TWS! Re VMG, yes this is of course the vital number, but... once one starts to really think about sailing, wind, and optimising our craft, we need a frame of reference. Do we mean the wind experienced on land (GWS), floating still in the water (TWS), or sailing along (AWS)? Most people find true wind is the best primary frame of reference, followed by apparent, and finally ground. The trouble with a GPS derived VMG is that it might look dramatically better on one tack if there's a tide running, but that will naturally tell one nothing whatsoever about how the boat is doing in respect of the wind and waves. FWIW, designer derived Racing Polars will typically include: TWS, TWA, STW (spd through water), VMG, HEEL, REEF (measure of sail area), AWS, AWA, LEE (leeway angle), and also possibly FLAT (reduction in sail lift), SEA (sea state), and FLOT (for water ballasted craft!) Notice how none of these relate to ground wind, or GPS-type ground velocities. Apols if teaching grandmothers to suck eggs, etc!

 

[TLouth7]

Is it not far simpler to enter your destination into your GPS and sail for maximum VMG?

Sadly going to windward this is not the optimum. Consider that as you get close to a layline you will be going almost perpendicular to the mark, therefore your VMG will be close to 0. Pinching would increase your VMG (up to a point), but would not get you to the mark faster. You can set a waypoint very far to windward (True Wind). Maximising VMG towards this waypoint will optimise your beat.

That said, I would suggest ignoring one's instruments and sailing to the telltales. The next level is tacking to shifts (a big part of what the steering compass is for). Also tidal considerations (tack inshore when going against the tide).

 

[johnalison]

I entirely agree with BillH. Too many people become hooked on sailing to the apparent wind while ignoring boat speed. I much prefer boat speed to GPS speed but the latter will do when the first is not available. Best of all is a VMG meter (that is, one combining water speed and wind data). The trouble with following the apparent wind is that is the boat speed is checked by a wave the apparent wind direction moves aft and the temptation for a learner is to luff up to follow it, when continuing the course is really necessary, and although easing the sheets might be desirable, there is seldom time for a cruiser to want to do this.

 

[lw395]

Best of all is a bit of racing. You soon start to understand what works.

 

[Dan Tribe]

I've managed to enlist a 14 year old dinghy racing lad from our club. He's mustard. It took him a few minutes to realise a 1/2 tonner won't fall over, unlike a 420.
Youths seem to have an instinctive feel which I guess I've lost over the years.
Some of the other boats think I'm cheating.

 

[bobgarrett]

Sadly going to windward this is not the optimum. Consider that as you get close to a layline you will be going almost perpendicular to the mark, therefore your VMG will be close to 0. Pinching would increase your VMG (up to a point), but would not get you to the mark faster. You can set a waypoint very far to windward (True Wind). Maximising VMG towards this waypoint will optimise your beat.

That said, I would suggest ignoring one's instruments and sailing to the telltales. The next level is tacking to shifts (a big part of what the steering compass is for). Also tidal considerations (tack inshore when going against the tide).

I fear there are two definitions of VMG - they are both Velocity Made Good. One is towards the wind, and one towards the next mark. If the instrument shows VMG to wind direction then surely that is the boat sailing its fastest towards the wind when tacking and the figure you want to maximise.

 

[lw395]

I fear there are two definitions of VMG - they are both Velocity Made Good. One is towards the wind, and one towards the next mark. If the instrument shows VMG to wind direction then surely that is the boat sailing its fastest towards the wind when tacking and the figure you want to maximise.

Correct.
Plus the 'vmg' to windward can be nuanced in relative to the instantaneous wind, average wind or other subtly different variations of 'windward'.
The problem with vmg on an instrument is that it's a lagging indicator and subject to lots of errors.

 

[neil_s]

I wish I could get hull speed going to windward!

 

[TLouth7]

I fear there are two definitions of VMG - they are both Velocity Made Good. One is towards the wind, and one towards the next mark. If the instrument shows VMG to wind direction then surely that is the boat sailing its fastest towards the wind when tacking and the figure you want to maximise.

Absolutely, but:

the poster I replied to was describing VMG to the mark
a basic GPS based display is not going to give VMG to windward - unless you use the trick I mentioned.

Luckily telltales are really good at telling you when you are sailing at the correct angle to the wind, so all this instrumentation is OTT.

 

[Robert Wilson]

I wish I could get hull speed going to windward!

I very, very nearly did on Saturday - 6.1kts.
(22' LWL, calculated hull-speed 6.28kts)
A truly rewarding sail. About F4, slight chop, full genoa and main.
Not bragging, but something just went right. I think I've tuned the mast better this season than any other, but Khamsin is really flying now.

I find I'm relying on telltales nearly 100% of the time, but I still forget to move the sheet cars when I roll in the genoa. DOH!

 

[johnalison]

Absolutely, but:

the poster I replied to was describing VMG to the mark
a basic GPS based display is not going to give VMG to windward - unless you use the trick I mentioned.

Luckily telltales are really good at telling you when you are sailing at the correct angle to the wind, so all this instrumentation is OTT.

I have tell-tales and use them for sail trimming, but I do not steer to them for the reason I gave at #11. As I said, I use my senses mainly, plus the water speed. I occasionally switch on the VMG-to-wind, sometimes for my entertainment and sometimes to wind up a guest helmsman. It is, of course, not really accurate, but provides a useful guide to the progress one is making (also downwind). In order to get the best result it is necessary to watch the sails, the wind angle meter or windex, the boat speed and the VMG. This requires more concentration than is any fun for more than some minutes, but useful lessons can be learned. One conclusion, which may seem obvious, is that only very gentle use of the helm is compatible with good progress, effectively just fingertip adjustments with a tiller.

 

[Robert Wilson]

I have tell-tales and use them for sail trimming, but I do not steer to them for the reason I gave at #11. As I said, I use my senses mainly, plus the water speed. I occasionally switch on the VMG-to-wind, sometimes for my entertainment and sometimes to wind up a guest helmsman. It is, of course, not really accurate, but provides a useful guide to the progress one is making (also downwind). In order to get the best result it is necessary to watch the sails, the wind angle meter or windex, the boat speed and the VMG. This requires more concentration than is any fun for more than some minutes, but useful lessons can be learned. One conclusion, which may seem obvious, is that only very gentle use of the helm is compatible with good progress, effectively just fingertip adjustments with a tiller.

And annoyingly, my sail on Saturday was somewhat spoiled by more than usual weather-helm. Perhaps I had too much genoa set?