Sailing Qualifications - A Nonsense ????

The most dangerous part of a flight across the Atlantic is the take off at Gatwick and the landing in JFK, the bit in between there is little to it or avoid, autopilot all the way.

Must be much the same sailing a yacht across. A skill is needed but navigating into and out of harbours and channels, avoiding other craft etc can be done much closer to home. A New Zealander once told me sailing around the coasts of the UK takes a particular skill such are the tides that one encounters.
 
slipknot I gotta agree, I myself went to a 'college' to become a mcse engineer, - thats some deep learning- but in 3 months??? , yep I qualified within 3 months and was out servicing cough Hsb cough c servers and systems within 4 months, - I barely knew jack shhh...
These cheque book sailors, whilst I admire their ''wanna learn'' spirit, I cannot subscribe to the speed and awards of the tickets.
They have paid a lot of money for those tickets - what rep would a company gain with 50 / 50 pass/fail rate hm. 75 / 25 looks better eh!
I have advocated for years that all sailors spend at least 2 seasons in dinghies in logged conditions as any pre-requisite to any big boat awards, regardless of ' a week on uncle harry's yot ' etc.
I once did a quick delivery with M.Golding back in his early days with Group 4, the British Steel Fleet boat. Out of very few 'permanent' crew, one was randomly picked out of a hat by Mr. Sorenson, one that is of his U.K. workforce of security guards - lucky git-. This guy had been ''sailing'' for approximately 5 weeks by the time of this delivery. We had never met prior. 2nd night out of Shamrock Quay, M.G. was having a kip, I was on the wheel, this nutbag was on watch with me + some others, The wind veered by more than a couple of degrees, so I asked nutbag to sheet in to maintain everything, '' nah that's not how we do it on big boats'', - just sheet in will ya?, there he was - effectively 5 weeks old, theres me with 2 transats and like a bazilliain channel essex wight humber blah blah blah, wtf?
I know of plenty from the great school of Cough Iow cough, who freak out approaching chichester in the dark on the ebb, left alone the boats would be in trouble. I could go on, on on on..... I agree, the ticket is setting a standard, the methods are at a good standard of delivery, but delivered and understood fully ? I still respect anyone who goes out there, I even respect the fools, they're having a go. but I still feel that it's too short on requirements to allow people to run the gauntlet with others lives'.
edit- not least the brave folk who go to their aid =)
 
I agree with Nigel. This bloke sounds like the one I want with me for a passage, not a some know-it-all with a load of paper and no sense.

We were a bunch of 5 mates on rented 38 footer for a weekend. I think everyone on board had at least Day Skipper level, if not the bit of paper. Three had their own boats, two sail and 1 mobo with a couple of sticks. One of us was an Ocean Yachtmaster and qualified as YMO instructor.

With 45+ knots over the deck, Mr YM took the helm and took charge. One of my least favourite sailing memories followed as he bore away after I'd put another reef in, giving no warning and no opportunity to get back to the cockpit from the mast .

Eventually, the rest of us ignored him and got on with the business of sailing the boat properly and safely and we had a great day.

The moral to me is twofold:

1. Basic skills + common sense = safe

2. All the paper in the world - common sense = lethal
 
Re: Sailing Qualifications - A Nonsense ???? Yep ...

I agree with you 100% Nige. I would far rather have a teachable novice, than someone who 'knows' everything, but can do nothing.

When my wife did her competent crew course, there was a day skipper candidate on board who had thousands of miles and a transat on her log.
She was unteachable and in the end the instructor wouldn't even sign her off for CC.
Why? Because she was unteachable and a danger to everyone else on board.
My Mrs who started the course saying 'I know nothing' ended up realising she knew an awful lot more than some.
 
"The moral to me is twofold:

1. Basic skills + common sense = safe

2. All the paper in the world - common sense = lethal"

Wholly agree, but would add:

3. Lots of experience is sometimes not the same as common sense (though it usually helps)

4. Confidence is not the same as competence!
 
Re: Sailing Qualifications - A Nonsense ???? Yep ...

Someone can have 1000's of miles in their log, all gained as a crew member with others to support them. Skipper plus crew (SWMBO?) will learn quickly, they have to.
 
Re: Sailing Qualifications - A Nonsense ???? Yep ...

That's exactly it. This lady had logged her miles with her husband, who basically wouldn't let her do anything other than cook and write in the log. Therefore she learned nothingmuch about sailing.
If I ever take just one other out sailing who has done no sailing, first thing I do is teach them how to stay safe and raise the alarm should I become incapicitated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
YM tickets only allow for up to 200 nm offshore, the ocean ticket is exactly what is says on the packet - ocean crossing!

Seems to me that the guy was being honest?

Peter.
 
[ QUOTE ]
"I'm an RYA yachtmaster, been sailing my whole life but no ocean sailing to speak of."


[/ QUOTE ]

woodentop, That description describes me and most of my sailing friends ,some have YM qualifications and some dont.

Experience counts for far more than qualifications but a mixture of the two has to be good i would have thought?

what confuses me is how someone who is an "RYA instructor "would not be aware of the fundamental difference between YM offshore and YM Ocean???
 
Re: Maybe he\'s an RYA dinghy instructor??. nm

Glasshoppa say......

"He who knows, and knows he knows, he is a wise man! Seek him!
He who knows, and knows not he knows, he is asleep! Wake him!
He who knows not, and knows he knows not, he is a child! Teach him!
He who knows not, and knows not he knows not, he is a fool! Shun him!"
 
I Do Talk Crap Sometimes

My Dear Slipknot,

I do talk crap sometimes. And you are right to chastise me for making the odd silly post.

So far my longest solo sail was North Carolina to Falmouth, but I put in to the Azores.


The problem with this forum is that a quick comment is sitting there for months afterwards for all to pick apart...Long after one has realised ones's error.
 
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