paulrossall
New member
I need an air draft of 40 feet and do not want to lower my mast. If I enter the Broads at Lowestoft can any-one advise me the extremeties I can go to on each river? I draw 3ft 3inch. How easy is it to sail on the Broads?
Sailing on Norfolk Broads
- Thread starter paulrossall
- Start date
pvb
Well-known member
Don\'t sail on the Broads...
It's a nightmare for everyone else! The rivers are very narrow, and frequently change direction. The Broads are full of motor cruisers crewed by non-sailing types from northern climes, swigging beer from cans and constantly swivelling their TV aerials to try to pick up the latest soap. And they don't realise that boats don't have brakes, like cars, and so they constantly bump into other boats. And they wear very revealing vests (that's just the men). And they have multiple tattoos (that's just the girls). Best to avoid the Broads comletely.
It's a nightmare for everyone else! The rivers are very narrow, and frequently change direction. The Broads are full of motor cruisers crewed by non-sailing types from northern climes, swigging beer from cans and constantly swivelling their TV aerials to try to pick up the latest soap. And they don't realise that boats don't have brakes, like cars, and so they constantly bump into other boats. And they wear very revealing vests (that's just the men). And they have multiple tattoos (that's just the girls). Best to avoid the Broads comletely.
Miker
New member
Before I take exception....
How far north is northern climes?
How far north is northern climes?
G
Guest
Guest
Sorry Paul
you won't get far with 40ft sticking up in the air. Too many fixed bridges will scupper you. You won't get above Yarmouth but could have a decent sail up the Yare to the newish bridge on the outskirks of Norwich.
All Broads yachts have counter-balanced masts in tabernacles and they can be lowered and raised in no time. Broads yachties tend to flee from the motor boat hire fleets by heading up to Hickling Broad and Horsey Mere or other waterways than cannot be reached by the biggest of the motorboat tubs.
Sailing on the main waterways is extremely demanding and certainly hones your yacht handling skillls, but you will soon get fed up with the hundreds of twerps in hired motor boats who don't know the rules of the Broads. I have loved sailing the Broads for the past 30 years. My great grandfather was a wherry skipper on the Broads when they were mainly used by trading craft. But I must admit I would prefer the wide open spaces of the North Sea and its estuaries.
Tin hat and flak jacket on.
cheers
Broadreach
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Broadreach on Sat Jan 26 00:10:11 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>
you won't get far with 40ft sticking up in the air. Too many fixed bridges will scupper you. You won't get above Yarmouth but could have a decent sail up the Yare to the newish bridge on the outskirks of Norwich.
All Broads yachts have counter-balanced masts in tabernacles and they can be lowered and raised in no time. Broads yachties tend to flee from the motor boat hire fleets by heading up to Hickling Broad and Horsey Mere or other waterways than cannot be reached by the biggest of the motorboat tubs.
Sailing on the main waterways is extremely demanding and certainly hones your yacht handling skillls, but you will soon get fed up with the hundreds of twerps in hired motor boats who don't know the rules of the Broads. I have loved sailing the Broads for the past 30 years. My great grandfather was a wherry skipper on the Broads when they were mainly used by trading craft. But I must admit I would prefer the wide open spaces of the North Sea and its estuaries.
Tin hat and flak jacket on.
cheers
Broadreach
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Broadreach on Sat Jan 26 00:10:11 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>
oddball
New member
Re: Before I take exception....
Just to comment my stinkpot is in Norfolk and I too love the broads BUT even private raggies have their faults i.e. like hogging the main channel and not indicating their intentions AS PER THE COL REGS (he he). I find a few blasts - as per the col regs gets em thinking.....BUT on the whole yes its the hire fleet to watch out for Yarmouth bridge can be such fun !!!
Just to comment my stinkpot is in Norfolk and I too love the broads BUT even private raggies have their faults i.e. like hogging the main channel and not indicating their intentions AS PER THE COL REGS (he he). I find a few blasts - as per the col regs gets em thinking.....BUT on the whole yes its the hire fleet to watch out for Yarmouth bridge can be such fun !!!
G
Guest
Guest
Oddball
you are absolutely right..some of the racing yachties are downright unpleasant to anyone who gets in their way. Most of the private motor boat owners are OK and obviously know the rules of the road or river, but it all gets a bit tedious. it is one of the reasons I am flogging my Broads boat and looking at sea going yachts.
still it can be fun sometimes
cheers
Broadreach
you are absolutely right..some of the racing yachties are downright unpleasant to anyone who gets in their way. Most of the private motor boat owners are OK and obviously know the rules of the road or river, but it all gets a bit tedious. it is one of the reasons I am flogging my Broads boat and looking at sea going yachts.
still it can be fun sometimes
cheers
Broadreach
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Before I take exception....
Two things:
One. Many years ago while our children were under six, we had a Broads racing cruiser and enjoyed ourselves. Bear in mind that Broads sailing cruisers are specially designed for the waters. They turn on a sixpence (remember those?), are over-canvassed and have topsails to get the wind over the trees, and they can be very fast. Cultivate a good shout to abuse the hire cruisers.
Two. About 18 months ago, Hosanna had a four month refit at Bure Marine Ltd, opposite the Yare/Bure conflence. This was most instructive as the yard had an arrangement to rescue hire boats in difficulties on breydon Water. This could happen two or more times a day and the problems ranged from running out of fuel to mooring on top of a stake and getting impaled as the tide ebbed. (This is a difficult salvage problem). I used to help out with these rescues and I learned more about the idiocies of amateur sailors than I care to think about.
Can I tell you the one about the yachtmaster-examiner? Better not, he asked me not to.
William Cooper
Two things:
One. Many years ago while our children were under six, we had a Broads racing cruiser and enjoyed ourselves. Bear in mind that Broads sailing cruisers are specially designed for the waters. They turn on a sixpence (remember those?), are over-canvassed and have topsails to get the wind over the trees, and they can be very fast. Cultivate a good shout to abuse the hire cruisers.
Two. About 18 months ago, Hosanna had a four month refit at Bure Marine Ltd, opposite the Yare/Bure conflence. This was most instructive as the yard had an arrangement to rescue hire boats in difficulties on breydon Water. This could happen two or more times a day and the problems ranged from running out of fuel to mooring on top of a stake and getting impaled as the tide ebbed. (This is a difficult salvage problem). I used to help out with these rescues and I learned more about the idiocies of amateur sailors than I care to think about.
Can I tell you the one about the yachtmaster-examiner? Better not, he asked me not to.
William Cooper
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Before I take exception....
Anywhere t'other side of Exeter!
Anywhere t'other side of Exeter!
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Sailing on Norfolk Broads (longish post)
Broadreach, who IMHO really knows his stuff (I hope he doesn't mind me saying this) has covered the practicalities very well. He and I are at the opposite ends of our Broads sailing careers, which should explain a lot about why he is hard-headed and realistic while I am enthusiastic... ;- )
What hasn't been covered so much much yet is the sheer exhilaration and enjoyment that you can get on The Broads. Because you've got small rivers with fluking winds, it takes a good deal of skill and attention to get superb performance out of your boat. And when you're sick of the rivers, you can always go and sail about on the open water of the broads themselves.
Bill Cooper's points about the sail area carried by a Broads yacht are also extremely well-made.
This coupled with the different level of responsibility required for sailing on inland waters, means the sailing is just great. If you don't want crowds, it's simple, just go at a quiet time of year.
A word of caution. One of the boatyard owners, who has a number of yachts in the hire fleet, told me that some of the worst accidents he has seen have been from people with their Yachtmaster ticket in their pocket who underestimate the waterways and, in their confidence, have horrendous accidents. He says they'll take a little local experience over paper qualifications any time. I've also heard it said that when you've sailed on the broads, you can really call yourself a sailor.
I shouldn't have thought a draft of 3ft 3ins should be too much of a problem, but I may be wrong. If you get on the mud, a quick blast with the engine, backing the jib or standing up by the shrouds and rocking from side to side will generally get you off. It's mainly the edges of the broads themselves and some of the river bends which get a bit shallow.
For more of this kind of information try http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/ They do charge a toll if you're planning to stay for more than 28 days, all details on the website.
But the mast thing is a real problem. Does yours lower easily? As has been said above, in a Broads yacht it's 10 minutes moored at the side of the river at each side of the bridge, and if you're really confident you can shoot the bridge (ie do it all while under way). Mast lowering is almost as much a part of the drill to a Broads sailor as raising and lowering the sails.
Some of the bridges, especially the rail ones around Reedham can be raised to let yachts through, but expect to go about very smartly if there's a train coming! Acle and Potter are famous for their narrow bridges and many of the motor cruisers are prevented from going above Potter (one of the nicer bits of the whole network) because they simply can't get under.
If you want to get a flavour of what the Broads are like, try www.nbyco.co.uk. This is a website designed for people who want to hire yachts but it has a faq section which might give you a bit more of a flavour of what the area is like.
Good luck - I hope you find a way to make it work. If you can get through Potter bridge, Horsey and Hickling are a must. I personally like Reedham and you may find the southern rivers are quieter than the northern ones - places like Wroxham and Horning are at the centre of the boatbuilding/holiday industries and, while lovely, are correspondingly busy.You should definitely give Norwich a go if you can get up there - send me a message if, at some later date, you want some suggestions on things to do.
Broadreach, who IMHO really knows his stuff (I hope he doesn't mind me saying this) has covered the practicalities very well. He and I are at the opposite ends of our Broads sailing careers, which should explain a lot about why he is hard-headed and realistic while I am enthusiastic... ;- )
What hasn't been covered so much much yet is the sheer exhilaration and enjoyment that you can get on The Broads. Because you've got small rivers with fluking winds, it takes a good deal of skill and attention to get superb performance out of your boat. And when you're sick of the rivers, you can always go and sail about on the open water of the broads themselves.
Bill Cooper's points about the sail area carried by a Broads yacht are also extremely well-made.
This coupled with the different level of responsibility required for sailing on inland waters, means the sailing is just great. If you don't want crowds, it's simple, just go at a quiet time of year.
A word of caution. One of the boatyard owners, who has a number of yachts in the hire fleet, told me that some of the worst accidents he has seen have been from people with their Yachtmaster ticket in their pocket who underestimate the waterways and, in their confidence, have horrendous accidents. He says they'll take a little local experience over paper qualifications any time. I've also heard it said that when you've sailed on the broads, you can really call yourself a sailor.
I shouldn't have thought a draft of 3ft 3ins should be too much of a problem, but I may be wrong. If you get on the mud, a quick blast with the engine, backing the jib or standing up by the shrouds and rocking from side to side will generally get you off. It's mainly the edges of the broads themselves and some of the river bends which get a bit shallow.
For more of this kind of information try http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/ They do charge a toll if you're planning to stay for more than 28 days, all details on the website.
But the mast thing is a real problem. Does yours lower easily? As has been said above, in a Broads yacht it's 10 minutes moored at the side of the river at each side of the bridge, and if you're really confident you can shoot the bridge (ie do it all while under way). Mast lowering is almost as much a part of the drill to a Broads sailor as raising and lowering the sails.
Some of the bridges, especially the rail ones around Reedham can be raised to let yachts through, but expect to go about very smartly if there's a train coming! Acle and Potter are famous for their narrow bridges and many of the motor cruisers are prevented from going above Potter (one of the nicer bits of the whole network) because they simply can't get under.
If you want to get a flavour of what the Broads are like, try www.nbyco.co.uk. This is a website designed for people who want to hire yachts but it has a faq section which might give you a bit more of a flavour of what the area is like.
Good luck - I hope you find a way to make it work. If you can get through Potter bridge, Horsey and Hickling are a must. I personally like Reedham and you may find the southern rivers are quieter than the northern ones - places like Wroxham and Horning are at the centre of the boatbuilding/holiday industries and, while lovely, are correspondingly busy.You should definitely give Norwich a go if you can get up there - send me a message if, at some later date, you want some suggestions on things to do.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Sailing on Norfolk Broads (longish post)
Nice post Fruitbat and thanks for your praise.
There is no doubt that the Broads can be great fun and a challenge for anyone who refuses to use an engine. I have quanted for miles (using a big pole called a quant) to push a boat a long when the wind drops or when in wind shadow behind trees and have even quanted a 30ft yacht under Potter bridge against the tide and lived to tell the tale.
I have got into all kinds of scrapes over the years. As a cub skipper I was nearly dismasted when I got the tides wrong at Yarmouth and went roaring down the Bure with the tide and could not stop. Seconds before ramming a bridge with the mast up I took a flying leap on to a moored cruiser and fell straight through one of its window but was still able to cling on to our mooring line. We stopped 4ft from the bridge. My wife and another girl on board abandoned ship and fled to the pub for stiff drinks before I could convince them to return.
I have been rammed at full tilt by a 32 ft yacht which battered my 20ft half decker when I was on starboard tack. The side was stove in, the coaming shattered, the other boat's 6ft bowsprit missed my 12 yr old son's head by inches, our boom was snapped and we nearly lost the mast.
We have been rammed by a Wayfarer going top speed in a race and which failed to see us tootling along on Starboard. We have been bashed countless times by hired motor boats. We have been sworn at my daft hire crew who can't understasnd why we zig zag down the river.
We saw a hired motorboat go out of control and ram the reeds after a fight broke out in the wheelhouse. A woman on the helm saw us tacking towards her. She panicked. A man called her "a daft old bat" another man's voice said: "Don't you call my wife a daft old bat". The first voice said "I'll call her what I like" and they passed us with the wheelhouse a sea of flailing arms and legs before the boat turned sharply to starboard into the reeds.
We have seen rescues when the inexperienced have falled in, we have seen naked ladies swimming in rivers at night and on Horsey Mere by day.
I have leaped into the River Thurne to swim after my halfdecker when it sailed off when I slipped and stumbled while stepping ashore. I wasn't holding the painter, so away she went. I jumped in and got stuck in the mud in 7ft of water. I am 6ft tall. Having kicked out of the mud I surfaced and swam like crazy to catch the yacht. She was doing about 2knts in a gentle evening breeze. But I couldn't climb aboard because I was too knackered. So I hung on to the transom, steered the rudder blade with my knees and hauled in the mainsheet. I hung on until we got to the other side of the river when I could climb out and sailed the boat back. This became the subject of a Yachting Monthly Confessional.
Yep the Broads can be fun but dangerous. We cleared off from our mooring at Thurne to escape the motor boats which turn the river into the M1 during summer. Now we hide out at Horsey and venture under Potter bridge only very rarely.
Sorry to witter on but I just wanted to let Fruitbat what he has let himself in for. I was just like him 30 years ago. Now I want a nice seaboat and the wide open spaces and the Med.
cheers
Broadreach
sorry typed at high speed during a break at work.
Nice post Fruitbat and thanks for your praise.
There is no doubt that the Broads can be great fun and a challenge for anyone who refuses to use an engine. I have quanted for miles (using a big pole called a quant) to push a boat a long when the wind drops or when in wind shadow behind trees and have even quanted a 30ft yacht under Potter bridge against the tide and lived to tell the tale.
I have got into all kinds of scrapes over the years. As a cub skipper I was nearly dismasted when I got the tides wrong at Yarmouth and went roaring down the Bure with the tide and could not stop. Seconds before ramming a bridge with the mast up I took a flying leap on to a moored cruiser and fell straight through one of its window but was still able to cling on to our mooring line. We stopped 4ft from the bridge. My wife and another girl on board abandoned ship and fled to the pub for stiff drinks before I could convince them to return.
I have been rammed at full tilt by a 32 ft yacht which battered my 20ft half decker when I was on starboard tack. The side was stove in, the coaming shattered, the other boat's 6ft bowsprit missed my 12 yr old son's head by inches, our boom was snapped and we nearly lost the mast.
We have been rammed by a Wayfarer going top speed in a race and which failed to see us tootling along on Starboard. We have been bashed countless times by hired motor boats. We have been sworn at my daft hire crew who can't understasnd why we zig zag down the river.
We saw a hired motorboat go out of control and ram the reeds after a fight broke out in the wheelhouse. A woman on the helm saw us tacking towards her. She panicked. A man called her "a daft old bat" another man's voice said: "Don't you call my wife a daft old bat". The first voice said "I'll call her what I like" and they passed us with the wheelhouse a sea of flailing arms and legs before the boat turned sharply to starboard into the reeds.
We have seen rescues when the inexperienced have falled in, we have seen naked ladies swimming in rivers at night and on Horsey Mere by day.
I have leaped into the River Thurne to swim after my halfdecker when it sailed off when I slipped and stumbled while stepping ashore. I wasn't holding the painter, so away she went. I jumped in and got stuck in the mud in 7ft of water. I am 6ft tall. Having kicked out of the mud I surfaced and swam like crazy to catch the yacht. She was doing about 2knts in a gentle evening breeze. But I couldn't climb aboard because I was too knackered. So I hung on to the transom, steered the rudder blade with my knees and hauled in the mainsheet. I hung on until we got to the other side of the river when I could climb out and sailed the boat back. This became the subject of a Yachting Monthly Confessional.
Yep the Broads can be fun but dangerous. We cleared off from our mooring at Thurne to escape the motor boats which turn the river into the M1 during summer. Now we hide out at Horsey and venture under Potter bridge only very rarely.
Sorry to witter on but I just wanted to let Fruitbat what he has let himself in for. I was just like him 30 years ago. Now I want a nice seaboat and the wide open spaces and the Med.
cheers
Broadreach
sorry typed at high speed during a break at work.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Sailing on Norfolk Broads (longish post)
Hi again Broadreach - hope all is well with you. I'm sorry, but I laughed and laughed at some of these stories. I know they are for my instruction, and not necessarily my entertainment, but... the fight, already! lol!
Actually, I can report that my feelings on reading through your post genuinely were "Christ, what have I let myself in for..." ;- ) I should confess that "himself" in this case is actually "herself"... Don't worry, however, everyone always assumes the contrary.
I have been one of the inexperienced who fell in and had to be hauled out and given a succession of stiff whiskies until I agreed to go back on board (I wouldn't leave the well for the rest of the week, which made mooring a challenge). Pleased to report that it was at Somerleyton, not Horsey, and I was fully dressed. I've done my share of stupid things already, many of which have involved masts.
They include nearly shortening a tall Bermudan mast, lowered for passing under a bridge, by eight feet or so by careless mooring - damn fool that I was, I had failed to appreciate that the bloody thing would be sticking out beyond the end of the boat, and it twanged like a ruler, nearly sending the crutches and quite a lot of other gear straight over the side.
Once at Reedham village staithe my boat was boarded and occupied by swans which had scented fear and weakness among the crew, and which refused to clear off for quite some time. From a distance they look gorgeous, close up, they are big, ugly and *bloody* dangerous. I think we saw them off with a mop in the end.
I'll tell you a little tale that I heard when discussing my boat purchase. I asked (as you do) whether or not she had been involved in any serious accidents. Oh, no, the seller said, then paused and smiled before admitting that the previous summer it had been out on hire when someone experienced went below for something, leaving someone less experienced at the tiller. It was promptly steered straight into a privately-owned cruiser where it made great big hole with its bowsprit.
Hold on a minute. Weren't we trying to encourage the chap who started this thread to visit Norfolk? Now he'll never come near the place. But seriously, as I said before, I think over-confidence is the big problem and with all these cautionary tales ringing in my ears, I'm far more likely to be careful.
I hope our original poster can tell that behind all these horror stories, certainly at this end, are people that really love Broads sailing.
Hope I can follow in your footsteps and get 30 years of good sailing.
Hi again Broadreach - hope all is well with you. I'm sorry, but I laughed and laughed at some of these stories. I know they are for my instruction, and not necessarily my entertainment, but... the fight, already! lol!
Actually, I can report that my feelings on reading through your post genuinely were "Christ, what have I let myself in for..." ;- ) I should confess that "himself" in this case is actually "herself"... Don't worry, however, everyone always assumes the contrary.
I have been one of the inexperienced who fell in and had to be hauled out and given a succession of stiff whiskies until I agreed to go back on board (I wouldn't leave the well for the rest of the week, which made mooring a challenge). Pleased to report that it was at Somerleyton, not Horsey, and I was fully dressed. I've done my share of stupid things already, many of which have involved masts.
They include nearly shortening a tall Bermudan mast, lowered for passing under a bridge, by eight feet or so by careless mooring - damn fool that I was, I had failed to appreciate that the bloody thing would be sticking out beyond the end of the boat, and it twanged like a ruler, nearly sending the crutches and quite a lot of other gear straight over the side.
Once at Reedham village staithe my boat was boarded and occupied by swans which had scented fear and weakness among the crew, and which refused to clear off for quite some time. From a distance they look gorgeous, close up, they are big, ugly and *bloody* dangerous. I think we saw them off with a mop in the end.
I'll tell you a little tale that I heard when discussing my boat purchase. I asked (as you do) whether or not she had been involved in any serious accidents. Oh, no, the seller said, then paused and smiled before admitting that the previous summer it had been out on hire when someone experienced went below for something, leaving someone less experienced at the tiller. It was promptly steered straight into a privately-owned cruiser where it made great big hole with its bowsprit.
Hold on a minute. Weren't we trying to encourage the chap who started this thread to visit Norfolk? Now he'll never come near the place. But seriously, as I said before, I think over-confidence is the big problem and with all these cautionary tales ringing in my ears, I'm far more likely to be careful.
I hope our original poster can tell that behind all these horror stories, certainly at this end, are people that really love Broads sailing.
Hope I can follow in your footsteps and get 30 years of good sailing.