billmacfarlane
Active member
We seem to be going round in circles trying to read into theoretical figures probably more than can be read into one individual figure. Bill Cooper has suggested YM publish the discussion. Wouldn't it be more helpful , rather than to look at a class of boat theoretically , to get Scuttlebutters to tell of their own experiences of sailing in heavy weather , what sort of boat they were in , light , medium or heavy displacement, the sea state , how they and the boat coped , and what conclusions they drew from their experience ? I think this would tell us more than a set of figures can possibly tell about a particular boat. Here's one of mine to get the ball rolling. Apologies in advance if it gets a bit long. All I can say in defence is that I'm worse with a glass in my hand .
We left Littlehampton at 0030 hrs in a chartered Sadler Barracuda , 11 of us plus skipper/owner. Weather forecast was for F8 occ 9 SW which was fairly accurate. Destination Cherbourg or Fecamp , depending on the wind direction. On leaving harbour the wind was a steady 38-40 knots wsw so the decision was made to head for Fecamp to give us a freer sail. The point of sailing was a close reach . The sea state was a big rolling sea with occasional breakers that seemed to come at unpredictable angles. For those who don't know the boat she's a 45' ULDB ( Ultra Light Displacement Boat ) which is primarily a design for downwind sledging in the US Pacific waters. She had twin rudders and a lifting wing keel. Not the sort of boat some people would think suitable for the conditions we met.
We were triple reefed with a scrap of roller headsail. Speedwise the boat was making between 10 and 15 knots ( no exaggeration ) at a heeled angle of about 20 degrees. The twin rudders meant that she always had a good grip even when we had gusts in excess of 45 knots. The main never neeeded spilling in the gusts. She never threatened to lose her grip in the water. Motion was lively but you could easily steer the boat through the wave troughs to keep her more comfortable. It was comfortable enough to sleep down below. We shipped a fair bit of water in the cockpit with an occasional green one passing straight over the boat and washing us off the cockpit seats. This was partly due to our inexperience in helming her and the speed she was doing. We quite simply sailed into the occasional wave because we couldn't actually see them in the dark. . We were all harnessed on. The cockpit was the boat's real achilles heel. It was very wide and very shallow. You couldn't even begin to brace yourself and felt vulnerable when we shipped a green one. The best way to cope was to sit out to weather and lash yourself to the guard rails. We had an exciting if uneventful night those of us who hadn't succumbed to seasickness. We arrived in Fecamp at 0700 hrs the trip taking 6.5 hrs. What would it been like if we were in survival conditions ? We were nowhere near that but if we were , for that particular boat I would have dropped all sail , turned her stern into the wind , and trailed warps to slow her down. She was designed for downwind sailing but she would have been too fast without warps with the danger of burying her nose into a wave and the possibilty of losing her rig. Would she have sailed to windward comfortably in those conditions ? A qualified yes. She's light and in a heavy ,head sea would have stuggled and required a lot of work from the helm. She was capable but it would have been unpleasant. Would I have rather been in a heavy displacement boat that night. Not on your Nelly !!! I had what has since turned out to the sail of my life that night ( so far ) . The comfort factor would have been higher but we never felt unsafe or frightened , only uncomfortable. The thrill factor was very high. given the recent threads re stabilty curves did we feel as if we would capsize ? Never . I don't know what her theoretical stability curve , not particularly interested , but she never felt anything but secure on the water. Would I have liked to sail her for days at a time like that ? No ! It's possible but uncomfortable. Could a crew of 2 have coped on the boat that night ? Yes but !!! The boat would have needed bigger winches than were specified for 2 people to cope with Conclusions ?
Light displacement boats can be sailed in heavy weather with provisos. They're less forgiving than heavier displacement types and need more crew input. They can be more exciting. The more you know about your particular boat the better.
The cockpits of your standard production boats aren't suitable for heavy weather sailing. When I was looking for a new boat last year I rejected 2 out of hand after sitting in their cockpits ( Jeanneau and Bav 37's ) . Apologies to their owners but try to imagine how you would feel in 40 knots of wind harnessed to the helm in those wide shallow cockpits. Not for me I'm afraid. No amount of reading stability curves will let you know what it's like , only experiencing it.
Lastly a set of figures for a boat is merely an indicator of what it's like to sail. David has asked a lot of theoretical questions re what happens if ? As you can gather I'm not a great fan of theory. If you put your real time experiences on this thread it'll probably answer him better than theoretical answers. What's some of your experiences ?
We left Littlehampton at 0030 hrs in a chartered Sadler Barracuda , 11 of us plus skipper/owner. Weather forecast was for F8 occ 9 SW which was fairly accurate. Destination Cherbourg or Fecamp , depending on the wind direction. On leaving harbour the wind was a steady 38-40 knots wsw so the decision was made to head for Fecamp to give us a freer sail. The point of sailing was a close reach . The sea state was a big rolling sea with occasional breakers that seemed to come at unpredictable angles. For those who don't know the boat she's a 45' ULDB ( Ultra Light Displacement Boat ) which is primarily a design for downwind sledging in the US Pacific waters. She had twin rudders and a lifting wing keel. Not the sort of boat some people would think suitable for the conditions we met.
We were triple reefed with a scrap of roller headsail. Speedwise the boat was making between 10 and 15 knots ( no exaggeration ) at a heeled angle of about 20 degrees. The twin rudders meant that she always had a good grip even when we had gusts in excess of 45 knots. The main never neeeded spilling in the gusts. She never threatened to lose her grip in the water. Motion was lively but you could easily steer the boat through the wave troughs to keep her more comfortable. It was comfortable enough to sleep down below. We shipped a fair bit of water in the cockpit with an occasional green one passing straight over the boat and washing us off the cockpit seats. This was partly due to our inexperience in helming her and the speed she was doing. We quite simply sailed into the occasional wave because we couldn't actually see them in the dark. . We were all harnessed on. The cockpit was the boat's real achilles heel. It was very wide and very shallow. You couldn't even begin to brace yourself and felt vulnerable when we shipped a green one. The best way to cope was to sit out to weather and lash yourself to the guard rails. We had an exciting if uneventful night those of us who hadn't succumbed to seasickness. We arrived in Fecamp at 0700 hrs the trip taking 6.5 hrs. What would it been like if we were in survival conditions ? We were nowhere near that but if we were , for that particular boat I would have dropped all sail , turned her stern into the wind , and trailed warps to slow her down. She was designed for downwind sailing but she would have been too fast without warps with the danger of burying her nose into a wave and the possibilty of losing her rig. Would she have sailed to windward comfortably in those conditions ? A qualified yes. She's light and in a heavy ,head sea would have stuggled and required a lot of work from the helm. She was capable but it would have been unpleasant. Would I have rather been in a heavy displacement boat that night. Not on your Nelly !!! I had what has since turned out to the sail of my life that night ( so far ) . The comfort factor would have been higher but we never felt unsafe or frightened , only uncomfortable. The thrill factor was very high. given the recent threads re stabilty curves did we feel as if we would capsize ? Never . I don't know what her theoretical stability curve , not particularly interested , but she never felt anything but secure on the water. Would I have liked to sail her for days at a time like that ? No ! It's possible but uncomfortable. Could a crew of 2 have coped on the boat that night ? Yes but !!! The boat would have needed bigger winches than were specified for 2 people to cope with Conclusions ?
Light displacement boats can be sailed in heavy weather with provisos. They're less forgiving than heavier displacement types and need more crew input. They can be more exciting. The more you know about your particular boat the better.
The cockpits of your standard production boats aren't suitable for heavy weather sailing. When I was looking for a new boat last year I rejected 2 out of hand after sitting in their cockpits ( Jeanneau and Bav 37's ) . Apologies to their owners but try to imagine how you would feel in 40 knots of wind harnessed to the helm in those wide shallow cockpits. Not for me I'm afraid. No amount of reading stability curves will let you know what it's like , only experiencing it.
Lastly a set of figures for a boat is merely an indicator of what it's like to sail. David has asked a lot of theoretical questions re what happens if ? As you can gather I'm not a great fan of theory. If you put your real time experiences on this thread it'll probably answer him better than theoretical answers. What's some of your experiences ?
