Sail gives way to Motor

[kingfisher]

Right then,

Just to make sure, because for a moment some of these guys were able to make me doubt even the most elementary things (see thread "dolphin right of way).

In Rule 9 of the Colregs, a vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway is obliged to keep "as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable." The same Rule obliges a vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel not to impede the passage of a vessel "which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

NARROW CHANNEL: depends on the two concerned vessels, what is a narrow channel for two tankers might not be the same for two yachts.

A narrow channel does allow both vessels to pass, otherwise it would be an obstruction.

Narrow Channel OR Fairway: not a narrow fairway, but ANY fairway.

FAIRWAY: a marked channel

Who gives way: vessel of less than 20 metres in length OR a sailing vessel. ANY sailing vessel. My tender has right of way over any Velsheda/Hyperion/Wally. In a fairway. When I keep to starboard.

Who has right of way: a vessel. ANY vessel. Even a lowly motor vessel.

EXAMPLE 1 : in a harbour approach, a motor yacht keeps to the starboard side as it heads in, a sailing yacht is trying to tack it's way out. The motor vessel has right of way.

It could be that I'm totaly wrong, but then I'm going to need some pretty good arguments, and not LOL, ROFL or smileys.

Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[Guest]

Again ???????

This one always brings out the Rule-bashers, the Bible Thumpers and the Rag vs Stinkpot brigades .....

Basically keep to the tsbd side, dont cross another unless absolutely necessary ....... no need for fancy bits and pieces of rules / quotes etc. - common sense and bold actions so no-one misunderstands intentions !!

 

[halcyon]

Yes.

But your dinghy is not limited, it can use all the channel, as a motor boat, thus gives way to sail.

A lerge vessel can only go in the centre of the channel, thus a yacht gives way.

If the channel is so narrow that your dingy/motor cruiser has only one course, then the yacht will not be sailing, and your both power boats. But then the yacht has a deeper draft (probably), and thus is more limited, thus has right of way.



Brian

 

[bedouin]

I know this is a troll - but in case anyone takes Kingfisher's posts seriously .

"not to impede" is NOT the same as "give way". Check rule 8:

The requirement not to impede is defined as "to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel", nothing more.

Note also: "A vessel the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision."

It therefore follows that the requirement "not to impede" can be mutual and does not per se give precedence to one vessel or the other.

Had the intention of Rule 9 been to give the vessel the rights of "stand on" vessel, then it would have said so.

As a further note, Colregs never uses the phrase "Right of Way" - and nor do any of the rules give any vessel "Right of Way" over any other vessel. Anyone who uses the phrase "right of way" in relation to colregs has missed the point entirely.

I'm not going contribute futher to this debate - rules are made "for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools", especially where Colregs are concerned where the "normal practice of seamen" is also part of the rule book.

 

[Rowana]

And so say all of us ...

 

[kgi]

Don't know about you guys, but i tend to treat every other boat as a potential threat that way my boat doesn't get bent and i get to sail all the time. its no good pointing your finger at some guy saying it was his fault, when your boats going to be sat in the yard for three months being repaired?............keith

 

[Guest]

Too true blue .....

Also do not forget that commercially there are no recorded accidents / incidents totally blamed on one party ..... they always %age the blame ......

Pleasure craft that we play on .... could suffer same fate - as really it takes two to tango !!

So I agree with previous - I treat all as potential hazards .... keeping out of way, standing on when necessary - BUT always ready to abouit turn and skidadle away !!

 

[johnt]

well....I must confess that Ive never had problems with stinkpots tacking up Chichester, but I have with other yachts!

A blue duster merchant coming in from sea at East head bellowing through his little brass megaphone for me to get out of his way ...couldnt I see he was on Starboard ! and NO I didnt want to go outside the channel and check the depth with my keel !

and then there was the clown who came hammering up from behind ..under sail ...demanding his 'rights' to the full width of the channel ' damn near had me into chalkdock bouy !

why do these things always happen next to a bouy!

johnT

whos in charge of equality round here?

 

[Guest]

Bullish behaviour ....

A story I have recounted before ... but illustrates some Bullish attitudes ......

Entering Langstone Hbr on my previous Snapdragon 23, sails up .... running before wind, close to gybing .... being careful to keep out of others way. Unfortunately I was to port side of channel, but literally I was tripping along the Eastney C/Assoc. yellow buoys etc. leaving 99.9% of the wide channel for others .......

But of course there is the very nice dark Blue large Nicholson coming out - full sail hard on the wind, healing like he's in the Americas Cup qualifying ...... I have a problem .... if I gybe to get to stbd side ---- I cross this charging mammoth .... so I cut closer to the buoys .... boy am I close !!!!

What does he do ? Takes advantage to harden up even more, his mast is now at such an angle of heal that as he cuts along me - his spreaders went through my side stays .... I honestly thought I was dreaming .... but it was absolutely fact and happening .... as his cockpit charged past - of course the typical Blazer, Naval Peaked cap, BLUE Ensign and of course the shouted ..... Don't you know the RULES ..... directed at this silly little man on his Snapdragon 23 - who tried to give all and ended up seriously worried about condition of mast and stays after ....

My answer was probably carried away with the strong wind that was blowing .... but was VERY heart felt.

If anyone knows Langstone entrance - wind against tide is not funny in a small boat, when the winds got a bite to it .....

I will never ever forget that smug b-----d - I admire and would love to own a Large Nich classic .... but leave the idiot and his blazer ashore in the 'wardroom'

 

[tome]

Re: Bullish behaviour ....

Don't like to get drawn into colreg discussions too far, but I know Langstone well and can picture the scene. It's one thing being aware of the rules, but another to behave with decent manners.

I have no problem in giving way to a boat on a run as I can appreciate her lack of agility in manoeuvring. Others may see it differently, but what does it cost to bear away a few degrees in order to help the other boat avoid a gybe?

Sailing is fun - we should keep it that way.

 

[Guest]

EXACTLY ....

OK technically I was wrong .... but not 100% ......

To do as he wanted would have : a) caused a gybe in strong wind - I don't like that ! b) crossed his charging path - putting me in serious risk of being hit - he couldn't turn to starboard to let me cross ... c) been the poor choice out of available choices .....

For me it illustrated lack of apreciation of the essence of Seamanship .... a fact that his attire was in complete contradiction to ....

Seamanship is to me - common sense and prudent action, not bullish stand-on etc. risking others and self.

 

[Chris_Robb]

so back to the inner passage....

The post that started this - through the submarine barrier, was an example of someone hiding behind the col regs, and forgetting his seamanship. perhaps he should not have got himself into that situation in the first place.

 

[andyball]

Re: EXACTLY ....

you were wrong? is Langstone entrance a "narrow channel" for a 23' and a large Nicholson?