Safety Equipment

[nmeyrick]

I'd appreciate some more of the forum's collective wisdom. I'm getting my boat kitted up for a 1-2 week channel cruise this summer and want to add some safety equipment for this. I'm also planning a year or two down the line to take off for some liveaboard blue water cruising, and so want the kit I buy now to be up to that task.

I've seen a lot of discussions on liferafts, manily of the yes/no variety, but for me I don't want to be out of sight of land without one. I've looked at the Seago ISO which looks like a well build bit of kit at a sensible price (£750 ish), and claims to be suitable for offshore use. I also saw that their cheaper model came top in a recent PBO test of budget liferafts, yet you can easily spend 2-3 times as much on an offshore raft.

I don't think that this is an area to cut costs, but I'm also acutely aware that every pound extra spent is another pound I need to earn before I can chuck in the day job. Does anyone know what the difference would be between this and a £1500-2000 raft, and whether this would be up to the job of potentially floating offshore for days?

The other thing I'm planning to get is an EPIRB/PLB. PLBs seem to have advantages, as you can fasten it to your lifejacket so it's always there - particularly useful if single handing - and can also take it onto other boats with you. With McMurdo now offering a PLB that has 48 hours battery life & gps, is there any advantage in having an EPIRB, or will a PLB do the job just as well?

Thanks

 

[dnickj]

Just remember you can not register a PLB in the UK - as a result they probably wont come looking for you if you set it off
If an epirb is used they will cross check then send in the cavalry

 

[cliffb]

Quote - "Just remember you can not register a PLB in the UK - as a result they probably wont come looking for you if you set it off" - Unquote.

Not sure I agree with you there. I have a McMurdo PLB. I have an Ofcom license for it and it's registered on my CG66. So to what licensing are you refering?

 

[dnickj]

You can put it on your ofcom lisence but not register it with CG - they will only register an epirb as it has to be against a vessel where as a PLB should be for personal use
This information was given to me was given to me by an Ex Controller of UK SAR Force Helicoptors, RAF Kinloss so he should know what he is talking about

 

[mandlmaunder]

If you have not yet got a dinghy, consider a Tinker...they can come with liferaft kit including CO2 cartridges and also a mast, sail and daggerboard (can also use these for fun sailing!).
An EPIRB with GPS is best, but a 'grab bag' with the necessaries is good, too. Always recommend that you include a hand-held VHF unit and a small, collapsible kite and a bright, shiny CD to fix to its tail...visible for miles!
All the money that you spend on all these things that you hope you'll never need.......

 

[cliffb]

dnickj,

I hear what you're saying and I wouldn't wish to contradict what your friend at the UK SAR is saying, but... I've just been onto the CG66 website and it contains an option to include a PLB with it's hex number etc. So this would seem to suggest that it is recorded...somewhere.
Also... I would suggest that if a PLB sends an 'alarm' it probably doesn't differentiate between it being a PLB that's sending it or an EPIRB. And even if it does, is your friend indicating that if it's a PLB they are going to ignore the activation... or put it further down the list of 'alarms' to be attended to? I sincerely hope not.

 

[dnickj]

Interesting - think i will call them and find out the full story - i need an epirb myself and it was this that was stopping me getting a PLB _ i will post when I have spoken with them

 

[roly_voya]

On the liferafts, what I found was that it was mainly the eqipment that came with the raft that made up the price difference. I went the rout of having a basic but good quality raft with minimal kit included and packing what I thought I needed in a seperate waterproof bag attached to it. This means I know whats in there and that it works, also I can unpack it each season to check batt, flares etc. Interesting point about the EPIRB/PLB I was looking at the new McMurdo one as well so will check

 

[roly_voya]

Re: Definative answer to the EPIRB registration issue

Current coastgaurd guidence and regulation notice statees

"The Merchant Shipping (EPIRB Registration) Regulations 2000 require the mandatory registration of all 406 MHz and 1.6 GHz Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacons (EPIRBs) carried on UK ships. Additionally the UK register will accept 406 MHz Personal Locator Beacons (PLBs) used in a maritime environment."

For further details see here http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-mld-page.htm?textobjid=4F12B29BFE95C33B so it would seem the answer is yes, provided its a 406Mhz unit

Also worth checking that the unit can transmit a GPS position via tha Compass goestationary sat' system, if not then it will only be recieved by the LEO sat' net using doppler position fix which delays recipt by some hours as well as giving a much wider search area.

 

[mocruising]

Re: Definative answer to the EPIRB registration issue

I have an EPIRB and McMurdo fast find plus both registered with the CG. As for liferafts if you are only going cross channel and down to the Med by the one with the near coastal pack in it as opposed to Ocean. It will be slightly cheaper but please invest in one, and a hydrostatic release as well. Remember the Ouzo (Spelling).

 

[ChrisE]

With the greatest respect I'd advise against a Tinker.

The idea is seductive but runs into a couple of practical problems the most worrying of which is the use of the two gas cartridges for self inflation in the event of a ditch. These cartridges are rightly permanently attached to the dinghy ready for deployment. We found that these had been emptied (by kids (?) when dinghy run ashore for supplies, etc) fortunately not before setting off on a long passage. The other problem is that the stability of a tinker is not great and whilst the inflatable cover will keep you upright eventually, the last thing you want after a sinking is to be thrown around in a tumble dryer.

So now we have a liferaft and a tender.

 

[cliffb]

Re: Definative answer to the EPIRB registration issue

Going off thread here a bit... But as an aside, it always astounds me when at this time of year particularly, I hear of Mountain Rescue teams et al scouring the hillsides for climbers and the like who haven't returned etc. If they go out lone walking/climbing in dodgy conditions, why the hell don't they have a PLB?? It would save an awful lot of trouble for the guys and possibly thier own lives. Beats me.

 

[nmeyrick]

Re: Definative answer to the EPIRB registration issue

All very useful advice thanks, I'm particulalry keen to hear any more info on the question of how closely PLBs are monitored. If they are not monitored or not given the same priority that would be rather worrying and seems to undermine any point in having one at all. I found this article on McMurdo's website when I was researching which sounds like they are registered and do get picked up - but then I wouldn't expect bad news from the manufacturer:

http://www.mcmurdo.co.uk/news/news_article.html?news_id=249

Looking at their website also reveals why PLBs aren't used by climbers, as they are not approved for inland use in the UK, despite being used in this way in Oz and the US. There is also a petition you can sign to protest against this:

http://www.mcmurdo.co.uk/products/product.html?product_type=2&product_sector=1&product=86

Would be interesting to know what would happen if one of these went off on Ben Nevis, if anyone has any inside information - assuming they get listened to at all...

 

[AndrewB]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that this is an area to cut costs, but I'm also acutely aware that every pound extra spent is another pound I need to earn before I can chuck in the day job. Does anyone know what the difference would be between this and a £1500-2000 raft, and whether this would be up to the job of potentially floating offshore for days?

[/ QUOTE ]For a 1-2 week summer cruise in the channel, when you are always close to safety and extremely unlikely to be caught out in very bad weather, IMHO you do not really need a liferaft at all, if you have an inflatable dinghy and other safety equipment.

So really the most basic liferaft should be adequate. The difference between them is that offshore liferafts are built to a standard and equipped on the assumption that the victims will probably be rescued within 24 hours, while those for ocean use may be needed for an extended period.

There were good reviews of several liferafts in YM, May 2005, "Your money or your life?"; and PBO, May 2007, "Low cost liferafts". You should be able to buy copies from the YBW online filestore if you don't have the magazines.

 

[BlueChip]

[ QUOTE ]
For a 1-2 week summer cruise in the channel, when you are always close to safety and extremely unlikely to be caught out in very bad weather, IMHO you do not really need a liferaft at all, if you have an inflatable dinghy and other safety equipment.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, I see the most likely risk cross channel sailing as fire or collision. Both scenarios where I for one wouldn't be interested in hunting for the dinghy pump and getting it blown up. Its a pushpit mounted lifraft for me, one pull of the lanyard and over she goes.
If there's any time to spare in an emergency before abandoning ship concentrate on salvaging the boat or rounding up car keys, credit cards and phone

 

[sailor211]

On EPIRB's & PLB, I believe that an EPIRB can self deploy and float correctly giving the signal till its battery is flat. A PLB has to be held up keeping the aerial upright . Has anyone tried floating their PLB?

Being able to turn the beacon on and off helps if you may be more than a day away from help.

On liferafts: robustness of build and stability lightly loaded in a storm for 72 hrs would be a consideration mid-north Atlantic, less so in Biscay. Insulation and dry floor will be necessary in cold regions. Equally you can last a long time in warm areas need water & fishing lines, but only last hours the channel or Atlantic waters below 10 degrees.

 

[Troutbridge]

If you're going blue water cruising in a couple of years don't fall into the trap of buying cheaper kit now then finding it's not up to the intended voyage later. I believe they no longer market the Tinker with the life-raft option, something to do with MCA regulations (ring Henshaw and ask them). I had a Tinker and a liferaft, it wasn't a bad tender but was heavy to get on board. I now have an Avon and a dedicated offshore liferaft (heading off shortly). Make you sure you get a liferaft with a double floor.

 

[roly_voya]

Re: Definative answer - PLB\'s in mountains

Simple answer' UK regulations, radio comm's agency, do not alow the use of PLB's on land so they can't be registered and are classed as a fals alarm. I belive you gan get prossicuted for using one. Not really sure they would be useful in the UK exept perhaps Scotland as most places you can get through on a mobile within half an hour even if you have to walk to the nearest top. Mostly 'extensive' searches are for tourists who wouldn't carry one anyway

 

[damo]

"small, collapsible kite and a bright, shiny CD to fix to its tail...visible for miles!"

There is a radar reflective foil kite on the market, developed for SAR use

 

[cliffb]

Re: Definative answer - PLB\'s in mountains

Roly-voya,
Yeah thanks... I subsequently found this info, which I didn't realise before. It seems crazy tho' doesn't it? With regard to mobile phone coverage.... as I live in Scotland most of the rescues I read about are in this area and the phone coverage is generally sh*te. I can only just get it in my house...but then I am a bit... er... isolated. Even so... the coverage in the local town is somewhat touch and go. But hey... that's because there's so few people living in the area. So I can't have it both ways I guess!