Safe in harbour?

[Searush]

Sad, but there are three recent deaths reported on another thread, one on a mooring, two in marinas. Are we most at risk when we think ourselves safe?

I have long thought that there are more deaths to & fro'ing in dinghies than on the high seas. Out at sea, and especially when the weather is bad I (we?) take every precaution for safety I can. Is it too easy to be lulled into a sense of false security once "safely tied up"? What do you think?

 

[NUTMEG]

Guilty as charged

I am very careful aboard Sophie, VHF on, LJ worn at all times in cockpit and on deck, boarding ladder deployed etc etc etc. Yet I have on at least two occasions 'forgotten' to wear my LJ on the 600m trip from the jetty to her mooring. Rushing to beat the tide, too hot to be bothered and so on. Somehow, the jetty 'feels' safe, there are often kids crab fishing off of it and even swimming around it, in the summer anyway.

Strangely, LJ's always worn on the trip from Sophie back to jetty.

Funny old lot 'aint we?

 

[Poignard]

Sad, but there are three recent deaths reported on another thread, one on a mooring, two in marinas. Are we most at risk when we think ourselves safe?

I have long thought that there are more deaths to & fro'ing in dinghies than on the high seas. Out at sea, and especially when the weather is bad I (we?) take every precaution for safety I can. Is it too easy to be lulled into a sense of false security once "safely tied up"? What do you think?

I think you are right.

 

[Woodlouse]

It's a dangerous world. You could break your neck tripping over your doorstep. I find it best not to worry too much personally.

 

[Ludd]

I am very careful aboard Sophie, VHF on, LJ worn at all times in cockpit and on deck, boarding ladder deployed etc etc etc. Yet I have on at least two occasions 'forgotten' to wear my LJ on the 600m trip from the jetty to her mooring. Rushing to beat the tide, too hot to be bothered and so on. Somehow, the jetty 'feels' safe, there are often kids crab fishing off of it and even swimming around it, in the summer anyway.

Strangely, LJ's always worn on the trip from Sophie back to jetty.

Funny old lot 'aint we?

On buoy Portree few years ago .Yacht ,mother father 2 kids come onto next buoy fully kitted mathing gear ljs ,the lot. Dinghy launched, off ashore, no oars no ljs.On way back ( midnight ) their ob failed. If I hadn't flung them a rope as they blew past they' d have had real probs! Was a charter boat, no oars,first time they'd used ob.

 

[Csail]

Out in Greece i didn't see anyone wearing a LJ except for my son. Thinking about it never saw anyone in BVIs either.Don't know anyone who has died while sailing but do know the ones that were on route to the boat by tender.

 

[Baggy]

at anchor..scilly isles
in dingy, rucksack on back, big wave, in water, sinking fast, guardian angel, surfaced, got on boat, thanked god

 

[Mr.Completely]

I read, and cannot remember where though, that 4 out of 5 boats that sink do so when moored.

Thought that was quite interesting.

 

[Searush]

I read, and cannot remember where though, that 4 out of 5 boats that sink do so when moored.

Thought that was quite interesting.

Well, considering that most boats spend well over 90% of their life moored or ashore, I am surprised that figure isn't higher than 80%. Especially as they are mostly unattended so any problem with blocked drains or failed seacocks/ propshaft seals etc will not be spotted until she fails to rise on the next tide or simply slips below when no-one is looking.

Think about it, 10% in use requires 5 weeks sailing per year. Even if you assume a 6 month season & 6 months ashore, you still need 5 weeks (or equivalent with long weekends) sailing to get 20% use out of your boat.

Depresssing isn't it?

 

[Billjratt]

Three deaths have 'penetrated my comfort zone' and all were pontoon/dinghy incidents combined with alcohol. one unfortunate friend caught his foot on a mooring cleat and ended up attached to it by his trouser leg, hanging upside down in the water.
We've been flung out of the dinghy by a rougue wave, and are both of the opinion that an (auto)inflated lifejacket would have made it more difficult to get back aboard.
I really don't know what the answer is. I know many lives could have been saved by an LJ but I think they still need a bit of developement before we are all happy to clunk click every trip.

 

[awol]

If

lifejacket = hypothermia
and
no lifejacket = drowning

Prolongation of life is curtailed either way. My tame medic reckons hypothermia with a good skinful of alcohol should be relatively pleasant compared with sober drowning but it is only his conjecture. I have no idea how either compare to falling off a mountain or any of the other ways that non-sedentary people can cock-up their chosen method of passing the time. I sort of presume that, rather like cycling, the benefits to the participants, in general, outweigh the risks.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

To answer the OPs question directly - yes we are at more risk when we think we are safe. I understand that this has been demonstrated and explained. There are physiological and psychological reasons why threatening stimuli makes us behave instinctively in a safe way. If the threatening stimuli are removed or there is a perception that the risk is not relevant then we do take more risk because the safe instincts are not primed.

Apparently the reason for safe environment risk taking is that the natural psychological state for a human being is slightly neurotic. Neurotic genes don't get eaten by Saber-toothed tigers.

I came across these concepts on an Emotional Intelligence course so the explanations above are my own amateur recollections.

 

[BlueChip]

Sad, but there are three recent deaths reported on another thread, one on a mooring, two in marinas. Are we most at risk when we think ourselves safe?

I have long thought that there are more deaths to & fro'ing in dinghies than on the high seas. Out at sea, and especially when the weather is bad I (we?) take every precaution for safety I can. Is it too easy to be lulled into a sense of false security once "safely tied up"? What do you think?

I'd agree with that. Several Decembers ago, late on a Sunday afternoon after a weekend afloat we had packed up and as I was locking up, SWMBO got off the boat and was loading the trolley which was at the pontoon end of our finger. For some reason as she stepped round the trolley she slipped and fell in the water. It's dark, cold and the marina is deserted, she is wearing her going home outfit. Try as I could I could not get her out of the water, her clothes were waterlogged and stretchy and because of a previous injury she had a damaged elbow and couldnt help herself. She was holding onto my hand but I didn't have the strength to pull her out, she rapidly became helpless in the cold and as she is a non swimmer I didnt want to leave her to get help. Were it not for a passing motor boat who heard our shouts and radiod the marina office for help, she may have died that day. We wore our lifejackets while sailing, maybe we should keep them on until we are in the car?

 

[Stemar]

I've had two unexpected swims, both when the boat was safely parked. Both were, more by good luck that good judgement, trivial affairs, both had the potential for an obituary. I'm trying to get into the habit of wearing my LJ the same way I wear my seat belt - a habit, even for the shortest, most benign trips.

I'm not there yet, but I'm better at wearing it in the dinghy than I am on board, 'cos I reckon the 300 yards from club pontoon to boat is the most dangerous part of my trip (apart from the M25!) Actually, the REALLY dangerous bits are the first and last metres, in and out of the dinghy.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I'd agree with that. Several Decembers ago, late on a Sunday afternoon after a weekend afloat we had packed up and as I was locking up, SWMBO got off the boat and was loading the trolley which was at the pontoon end of our finger.

I hates bloody finger pontoons for this sort of reason: they look quite safe but they are often very wobbly indeed. The narrower the worse, of course.

 

[Matt341]

Last January we were offered a berth in the marina that was more suited for the size of boat so we went down one Saturday in January to move the boat. We left the house in the sun with light winds. By the time we did the 1 hour journey to the marina it was overcast and blowing at least a force 6. We had travelled all the way down and we really wanted to move the boat as the berth she was on was causing us problems.

So I took some of the ropes off and took them over to the new berth. Leaving just an aft and bow line to hold the boat while I started up the engine.

The berth was way to small for the boat and I wasnt exactly sure how I was going to get out due to the proximity of the vessels behind. But with my wife on the corner of the finger to push out and our son on the main walkway ready to release the rope, I slowly reversed back while my wife held the boat in a steady line to get out. I was back as far as I could go so tried to turn the boat in one go without hitting the bow on the edge of the finger. (wife now on the end of the finger with no boats either side)

As I slowly turned the boat the wind caught her beam on and pushed sideways onto the edge of the finger. Son was now on the boat the other side to try and fend off. So we had the boat beam against the finger end with my wife trying to hold her off and our son on the boat the other side trying to hold the stern off.

Eventually throttled down and cleared it and now with power and momentum the wind didnt cause a problem. But my wife was still on the end of the very narrow finger. I turned around and noticed her trying to walk back and the finger shaking violently (probably didnt help that her legs were probably shaking as well after the experience). I honestly thought she was going in but she got down on her hands and crawled back to the walkway. By now our son hadnt noticed as he had run to catch the ropes on the other berth.

If she had fallen off the finger I dread to imagine what would have happened, the marina was frozen solid in places and the base is a sinking mud and at the time there wasnt a huge amount of depth.

With all the rush to get the boat moved, lifejackets hadnt come into thought, yet they could well have saved her life if she had fallen in.


How easily accidents can happen.

Ian

 

[silver-fox]

Sad, but there are three recent deaths reported on another thread, one on a mooring, two in marinas. Are we most at risk when we think ourselves safe?

I have long thought that there are more deaths to & fro'ing in dinghies than on the high seas. Out at sea, and especially when the weather is bad I (we?) take every precaution for safety I can. Is it too easy to be lulled into a sense of false security once "safely tied up"? What do you think?

I think there is a false sense of security and failure to recognise the risks.

I have often thought that owners will often spend endlessly on technology particularly to protect against the risks that frighten them, whilst ignoring the real mundane risks that are most likely to lead to disaster.

Buying a gadget is always more fun than being disciplined I guess?

Prudent behaviour to mitigate risk is the single most important thing we can all do to ensure our own safety. I would put planned maintenance, appropriately sized ground tackle and recognising just how risky the use of tenders can be near the top of the list (particularly when alcohol is involved).

I am not suggesting abstention or unnecessary precautions; just a bit of thought about what can go wrong and what can be done about it before it happens!

 

[Dipper]

Sadly yet another marina death. http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/434909/man-dies-after-falling-into-river-dart

 

[Ubergeekian]

Prudent behaviour to mitigate risk is the single most important thing we can all do to ensure our own safety. I would put planned maintenance, appropriately sized ground tackle and recognising just how risky the use of tenders can be near the top of the list (particularly when alcohol is involved).

Although the dangers of tenders are often and rightly stressed, I am struck by how many of the accidents and near-accidents described here happened in marinas. Do pontoons and fingers, I wonder, give a false sense of security?