Sadler29 Bilge Keel

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Aege

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I am considering buying a Sadler29 bilge keeler. I would appreciate any opinions as to how they perform to windwards. I understand that they will not be as good as a fin keeler, but are they still ok? I understand they heel pretty easily, but are they scary to windwards in a bit of a sea? Although most of my sailing will be in the Thames Estuary (Crouch, Blakwater, Ramsgate), I will be doing the odd Channel crossing and perhaps the southern North Sea. Any idea if the bilge keel version would be suitable (i.e. not too scary for the wife!)?

Thanks.
 
I had a 29 fin keel some years ago. The test sail was on a bilge keeler. From what I remember, the helm was less responsive with the bilge keels but it was pleasant enough. The bilge keels are certainly less good to windward than the fin and can give rise to some slapping, but the Sadler is quite a good sailer for a boat of its generation anyway. I don't think that on a sea crossing you will notice much difference and your wife will not be alarmed by its behaviour any more than any other boat of this size. The Sadler 29 is somewhat slab-sided and so needs to be reefed early, maybe to windward in F4. With the fin I sailed and raced in company with friends with 32s and could keep up with them most of the time, unless we were tacking in F4 or above, when they would walk away from us. Unless your mooring dictates otherwise, I would consider looking for a fin version. The bilge is fine but you will probably enjoy the fin more. My sailing in my Sadler was all East Coast, Channel, N Sea and once to the Baltic.
 
Re "scary for the wife":
No boat needs to be sailed on its ear, it won't go any faster like this; reef in good time, you will make better VMG because of less leeway.
Whatever boat you sail, attention should paid to proper sail trim. In stronger winds don't hook the leech, but induce twist. Don't oversheet the foresail.
Anticipate gusts - dump the main, or better still, luff up, to make ground to windward.
Look to the condition of your sails, are they old and baggy? In which case they will induce excessive heeling.
For my own part, sailing upwind seems unscary, as, when close -hauled, a boat will settle into a groove and maintain a steady angle of heel. It's downwind sailing that can be scary , not so much in modern designs with wider transoms but in boats of an older generation. My previous boat was a UFO 27, a 1970's design, which had a reputation for being "a hand-full" when sailing downwind.
That's my twohalfpenceworth, sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs.
P.S. It goes without saying, that for your preferred sailing area, a bilge keeler is the right boat.
 
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I used to have a 28' bilge keeler which was generally thought of as an OK performer. I agree that the performance was not as good as equivalent fin keelers although I never raced against any. The best way of assessing performance is probably to look at the handicap ratings. I also agree that reefing early is advisable especially with a nervous crew. My wife was in that category after a scary experience in Greece when I misjudged the condition. We therefore usually reeled before setting out and it in no way spoilt our enjoyment. I found that the convenience of twin keels far outweighed the slight effect on performance.
I've always liked the look of the Sadler 29 - go for it!
 
ghostlymoron said:
I used to have a 28' bilge keeler which was generally thought of as an OK performer. I agree that the performance was not as good as equivalent fin keelers although I never raced against any. The best way of assessing performance is probably to look at the handicap ratings. I also agree that reefing early is advisable especially with a nervous crew. My wife was in that category after a scary experience in Greece when I misjudged the condition. We therefore usually reeled before setting out and it in no way spoilt our enjoyment. I found that the convenience of twin keels far outweighed the slight effect on performance.
I've always liked the look of the Sadler 29 - go for it!
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I can't currently find my Portsmouth Yardstick tables but I seem to recall that there's only 5 percent difference between the fin and twin keel versions of the S 29.
 
reeac said:
I can't currently find my Portsmouth Yardstick tables but I seem to recall that there's only 5 percent difference between the fin and twin keel versions of the S 29.
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I can't remember either, but 5% is a lot!

I beg to differ with a couple of Spirit's comments. I don't think that a boat which is over-reefed is more comfortable than a boat that has the right sail, rather the opposite since the boat will be suffering a wallowing motion rather than being driven through the water. There are borderline cases where we can differ on this, but I don't think that over-reefing to be kind to the crew is a good idea. Each boat/sail combination will have its own 'right' setting. A nervous crew needs to learn to relax and go with the boat's motion, otherwise even a short passage can be very tiring.


We can argue about whether fin or bilge is better for the East Coast, but you will probably find that the majority of larger boats in this region, say 30'+ are now fin keeled, and it depends on your mooring needs and the kind of sailing you are going to do which you choose, since there is no one correct answer. I have a 1.5m fin, and my exit is about 0.9m at datum. My sailing would not be very different with 1.0m keels.
 
I bought one this year. Bit early to comment on windward performance, need a bit more practice on getting the sail trim right.
However I'm generally pleased with the boat. There's one for sale at my marina on the Orwell. If you have any detailed questions, pm me.
 
I had a bilge keel Sadler 29 for 15 years and thought it a marvellous boat. My wife and I both had tears in our eyes when the new owner took the boat away.
Nobody on here believes me but I found the windward performance to be very good - given decent sails. The key is the assymetric shape of the keels. They are flat on the outside and curved on the inside and angled to the vertical. So once the boat is heeled the leeward keel is vertical and lift off the curved surfaces is creating a force to windward which greatly reduces leeway.
The shallow draft and ability to take the ground was very useful in crowded Solent anchorages, and a godsend in Poole Harbour.
The downsides are that the leading edge of the windward keel breaks the surface when heeled in a seaway causing some slamming. And crawling between the keels to do the antifouling is unpleasant to say the least. Also I don't miss the never-ending rust treatment on the iron keels. The new boat has a lead keel.
 
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Check out the Mike Lucas web site where in an article on keels you will see the bilge keel 29s sail nearly as well as the fins.
I had a bilge keel 29 for 15 years and I found it excellent.Crossed Biscay twice and have been caught out in a F8 a few times and the boat coped well.A few have crossed the Atlantic.
They tend to heel initially but then stiffen up which can be a little disconcerting for new crew until they get used to it.
 
Thanks everyone for some very useful information.
Yesterday we saw the Sadler in Ipswich and intended to put an offer in today. Unfortunately my wife changed her mind AGAIN this morning! I guess I'll have to wait until next week for her to change her mind again.
AAAAARGH
 
Wansworth said:
I recall the write up in PBO saying the designer had specified lead for the keels as iron more or less floated!
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That sounds like the Sadler 290, designed by Stephen Jones. which does have lead keels. As far as I'm aware, the original Sadlers, designed by David and Martin Sadler, all had cast iron keels.
 
She's changed her mind again, so I've got in quick and put in an offer on another Sadler! No going back now.
 
Aege said:
I am considering buying a Sadler29 bilge keeler. I would appreciate any opinions as to how they perform to windwards. I understand that they will not be as good as a fin keeler, but are they still ok? I understand they heel pretty easily, but are they scary to windwards in a bit of a sea? Although most of my sailing will be in the Thames Estuary (Crouch, Blakwater, Ramsgate), I will be doing the odd Channel crossing and perhaps the southern North Sea. Any idea if the bilge keel version would be suitable (i.e. not too scary for the wife!)?
Click to expand...
Hello Aege

Any reason why you specifically want a bilge keel? Asks man who sold his after three years.
 
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