Sadler 32 versus Westerly Discus

[MarkJohnson12345]

I was surprised and slightly embarressed that a Westerly Discus (33') completly outsailed my Sadler 32 in a force 4+ at the w/e.

Both boats were on a reach, waves were small, the Sadler was sailing between 5 and 6 knots (GPS), the Westerly was 1/2 a mile ahead (est) in 30 minutes.

I wonder if its my sailing skills or the boat!

Probably a combination of both.

 

[owen]

thats very surprising. are you sure he wasnt motorsiling. i wd expect the sadler to easily outsail the west. assuming clean bottom and fair sails

 

[tyce]

its got to be down to a dirty bottom, your boat should be much faster than the speeds you quoted on a reach, surely.

 

[jerryat]

Hi Mark,

Sorry, but I'm not really that surprised. Of course it's possible that he was motorsailing, but I bet you checked that out pretty carefully with the binoculars didn't you?!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

It could just be a combination of better sails, a cleaner bottom or (sorry) just a better sailor. I do not find the 32's particularly fast (they seem to dig a hull length hole, then sit in it) and would expect a well-sailed Discus to give you a good run for your money. Did you get the boat's name, 'cos maybe you could ask on here if anyone knows him/her?

Cheers Jerry

 

[MarkJohnson12345]

I do know the boat owner from Swansea.

Whether he had his engine I am not sure, he says not. I am not sure an engine would make a significant difference at those speeds anyway.

Our bottom has not been cleaned this winter, but we don't get much fouling here in the west. just a river slime, no growth.

The Sadler 32 is fat, ie 10' 6" beam, wheras the Discus though wide has a more cylindrical hull shape, rather than our diamond shape (!!)

The Westerly is quite a bit heavier, and takes a good wind to move it. The Sadler is a couple of tons lighter. Maybe we are the better light wind boat, and the westerly is better in stronger winds.

We were sailing at 5 to 6 knots showing on the GPS (max of 6.6), with little tide, as we were sailing across the main stream. Maybe we were doing a fair speed anyway.

Maybe I should take more sail handling lessons. Though I have sailed for 10 years in cruisers and a lifetime in dingies

Mj

 

[Vara]

Discus..28.4ft lwl
Sadler..24.0ft lwl.

May go some way to explaining your problem,especially if it was not too fine a reach.

 

[l'escargot]

[ QUOTE ]
...Maybe we are the better light wind boat, and the westerly is better in stronger winds....

[/ QUOTE ]

I've sailed on a well set up Discus and I would think this is the most likely - they only seem to start to get up and go from about 4+.

 

[DavidBolger]

What kind of prop do you have? A folding prop vs a fixed prop would make a huge difference.

I have a Sadler 34 and race in Dublin Bay. Last season we raced against a sadler 32 and never beat him. Santa brought me a new suit of sails and a folding prop. This year he hasn't beaten me yet!! Sails and prop can make a hugh difference to the performance of a boat.

regards

David

 

[MarkJohnson12345]

H'mmm yes I have a 3 bladed prop on at the moment, not sure what the other boat has.

I do have a two bladed, might give that a try

Thanks David

 

[Peppermint]

Re: Reaching? Why not?

I think you'd have nailed him to windward. Big old Westerly's like reaching.

 

[owen]

the handicap for he sadler is much lower so on a racing course you would have beaten him. On a reach his longer waterline would have made him faster. his theoetical speed is about 7-2 yours is 6'5.

 

[DavidBolger]

The Irish Sailing Association has a list of ECHO handicaps. These are the average IRC handicaps for each boat. The Sadler 32 has an ECHO of 0.88 and the Westerly Discus has an ECHO of 0.90. Over one hour at a speed of approx 6 kts, this should mean that the Westerly would be about 220 meters ahead of you and 110 meters over a half hour. The half mile he was ahead of you is about 900 meters so the relative speed between the boats does not explain the gap between the two boats. Having a three blade fixed prop is like dragging a bucket behind the boat. That and old sails is the most probable explanation of the difference. I would be very interested to hear what type of prop the Westerly had (given that you know he owner).

Regards

David

 

[MarkJohnson12345]

Both boats have a three bladed prop.

 

[Alchemist]

Sadler 32 vs Westerly Discus

I've raced my Sadler 32 for 8 years now with good results. Here are some tips.

1. Get rid of the three blade prop and buy a modern folding one or if you can't afford that put on a 2 blade.
2. Scrub the bottom every 3 months. This makes a huge difference even if you think that you are only taking off surface film. It's a pain I know !
3. Use the working Jib rather than the Genoa in anything over 12 knots, this improves progress to windward, is much easier to tack and doesn't seem to affect speed on a reach. On a run you'll have the spinaker up anyway.
4. Remove all of your cruising gear when racing and dump the water in the tanks. Doing this can reduce the boats weight by 500 kgs which in light winds really makes a difference.

In a Force 4+ my Sadler 32 would be at hull speed and I'd be looking at 6.5 to 7.2 knots on the log so there does seem to have been a problem with yours. If you are ever in the Solent I'd be quite happy to meet up to compare your Sadlers speed vs mine.

Good luck in your quest for speed.

 

[Robin]

Away from being closehauled and with sufficient wind waterline length rules and the Westerly has a much longer LWL. I would expect the Sadler 32 to sail closer to the wind but not necessarily faster in achieved VMG to windward.

We owned a W33 Ketch, same hull as the Discus and have sailed in company with a Sadler 32 which we frequently used to beat, even upwind, except in light winds. What really peed them off once was when beating up to a harbour in strong winds from where we had been anchored, we passed them yet we were lazily only using the mizzen and genoa, no mainsail and yet they had a reefed main and genoa.

Don't underate this model Westerly because it is better than you think and a bit unfair to compare with a Sadler 32 which really is a much smaller boat. A better way of comparing size is to use the LWL figure rather than plain LOA.

 

[Allan]

I have a W33 which on Sunday I sailed across from W-S-M to Cardiff, along with a Beneteau 31. When we left the wind was 18-22kts and I easily left him. When the wind dropped to 12-14kts he could head up better than me and sailed much faster. I agree with the comment above about using a jib, I had my 135% Genoa on this weekend and would have done much better with the 110% both days.
I had my rig set-up by a rigger earlier this year I found a great difference and would recommend it to everyone.
Allan

 

[Alchemist]

Hi Robin, my comments were entirely aimed at helping Mark get his Sadler32 to sail faster and I made no comments or comparisons regarding the Discus.

I agree with your comments about WLL and that the Sadler 32 isn't at it's best to windward with a reefed genoa and main (horrid sail shape, boat over on it's ear) - thus my comment about the working jib.

Have a good sailing season.

 

[Robin]

Hi Robin, my comments were entirely aimed at helping Mark get his Sadler32 to sail faster and I made no comments or comparisons regarding the Discus.

I agree with your comments about WLL and that the Sadler 32 isn't at it's best to windward with a reefed genoa and main (horrid sail shape, boat over on it's ear) - thus my comment about the working jib.

Have a good sailing season.

Sorry if I seemed to be answering or disagreeing with your post, mine was actually intended as a reply to the original post.

We had a fixed 3 bladed prop on our W33 and our friends had a 2 bladed fixed on their Sadler 32. We also had good sails, bi-radial genny and both main and mizzen were fully battened and I was paranoid about keeping a clean bum, but then so did the Sadler folk. Waterline length is always the big factor in average winds IMO, in lighter stuff power (sail area) to weight ratio is a factor and in strong ones then the hull speed formula can be exceeded with enough applied power if the hull shape allows the power not to over power, if that makes sense! Our subsequent boat had a Brunton 3 bladed self pitching and feathering prop which was hugely better.

Our season sadly is watching others, currently boatless for the first time in 40 years pending moving across the pond to live on a boat.