Rydlyme v patio cleaner.

[Yeoman_24]

I’m looking to give the seawater side of my Beta Marine 28hp BD1005 (9 years old) a good flush through and descale, etc. I see Rydlyme does a good job but have also seen some suggestions about using diluted brick and mortar cleaner.

According to Rydlyme faq’s the Hydrochloric acid content is less than 10% which makes it safe and it is also biodegradable.

So consider an alternative such as Bostik Cementone Brick and Patio cleaner. The COSHH safety sheet states it is between 5 & 10% concentration of hydrochloric acid and it is not harmful to the environment including marine environment. Manufacturers say it removes dirt, algae and limescale. It is a quarter of the price! Any chemists out there or sailors who can offer any objective advice on this please?

I have also been advised to consider if I should flush at all in case I cause an encrusted leak to open up so I should just remove and descale the heat exchanger so thoughts on that too please.

Thanks.

 

[oldgit]

Did use Rydlyme as per instructions to try and clear/clean the heat exchanger on my Perkins M135 engine.
Rigged up an old diesel transfer pump to circulate the approved mix for 30 mins throughout the raw water system.
It totally knackered the transfer pump impellor and made precious little difference to the running temp on my engine.
In the end removed the tube pack from its casing and marinated it in neat Wickes patio cleaner(the cheapest) for 10 mins.
Job done !.

 

[lw395]

Some patio cleaners are alkaline, they don't attack limescale as it's chemically a lot like the cement in paving slabs.
'Brick acid' or 'mortar remover' is a strong acid which will remove mortar stains from the faces of bricks. It doesn't attack bricks or brick pavers.
The alkaline cleaners are good for removing dirt and green slime.

For descaling an engine I might try a rust remover based on phosphoric acid or a central heating descaler.

It may be that the Rydlime attacked the deposits, then the patio cleaner shifted the resultant mess?

 

[alahol2]

Surely the heat exchanger is the only part of the system that could get 'scaled up'? What makes you think it is scaled? Have you removed/checked/cleaned the heat exchanger stack as per the regular maintenance recommendations? My, smaller, Beta is now 13 years old and there is absolutely no indication of scaling.

 

[pvb]

I’m looking to give the seawater side of my Beta Marine 28hp BD1005 (9 years old) a good flush through and descale, etc. I see Rydlyme does a good job but have also seen some suggestions about using diluted brick and mortar cleaner.

After only 9 years, and presumably not a huge number of engine hours, I wouldn't bother doing anything unless the engine were to exhibit signs of overheating.

 

[Yeoman_24]

Surely the heat exchanger is the only part of the system that could get 'scaled up'? What makes you think it is scaled? Have you removed/checked/cleaned the heat exchanger stack as per the regular maintenance recommendations? My, smaller, Beta is now 13 years old and there is absolutely no indication of scaling.

Heat exchanger is stuck fast. Going to try heat on it but thought it was stuck in perhaps due to scaling at the ends so perhaps a good descale would get things moving?

 

[longjohnsilver]

Did use Rydlyme as per instructions to try and clear/clean the heat exchanger on my Perkins M135 engine.
Rigged up an old diesel transfer pump to circulate the approved mix for 30 mins throughout the raw water system.
It totally knackered the transfer pump impellor and made precious little difference to the running temp on my engine.
In the end removed the tube pack from its casing and marinated it in neat Wickes patio cleaner(the cheapest) for 10 mins.
Job done !.

Totally the opposite of my experience of using rydlyme over 10 years or more. Has no effect on my impellers and often reduces the temperature by anything up to 10C. My son uses it, my boating mates also use it, all with similar results. I wouldn't be without it on my boat.

 

[lw395]

Totally the opposite of my experience of using rydlyme over 10 years or more. Has no effect on my impellers and often reduces the temperature by anything up to 10C. My son uses it, my boating mates also use it, all with similar results. I wouldn't be without it on my boat.

Different locations, different deposits from the water?

 

[Poey50]

Heat exchanger is stuck fast. Going to try heat on it but thought it was stuck in perhaps due to scaling at the ends so perhaps a good descale would get things moving?

I had a stuck heat exchanger stack and liberally sprayed Rydlyme on both ends (goggles are handy). After a few minutes a tap with a rubber hammer freed it.

 

[oldgit]

Totally the opposite of my experience of using rydlyme over 10 years or more. Has no effect on my impellers and often reduces the temperature by anything up to 10C. My son uses it, my boating mates also use it, all with similar results. I wouldn't be without it on my boat.

the impellor it knackered was not a rubber vane version as per water pump but a peculiar device in a Sealy Diesel transfer pump which has what appears to be a metal hub with slots and movable metal blades held out by centrifugal force.
Hub and blades were corroded as one piece , despite an attempt to flush the pump with diesel at the end of the operation.

 

[vyv_cox]

the impellor it knackered was not a rubber vane version as per water pump but a peculiar device in a Sealy Diesel transfer pump which has what appears to be a metal hub with slots and movable metal blades held out by centrifugal force.
Hub and blades were corroded as one piece , despite an attempt to flush the pump with diesel at the end of the operation.

That is a vane pump, as used in hydraulic systems. Most unusual for any metal to be attacked to such an extent by dilute hydrochloric acid. Do you know what it was made from?

 

[Hydrozoan]

Surely the heat exchanger is the only part of the system that could get 'scaled up'? What makes you think it is scaled? Have you removed/checked/cleaned the heat exchanger stack as per the regular maintenance recommendations? My, smaller, Beta is now 13 years old and there is absolutely no indication of scaling.

Indeed – mine is over 22 years old and I would not contemplate acid flushing.

I had a stuck heat exchanger stack and liberally sprayed Rydlyme on both ends (goggles are handy). After a few minutes a tap with a rubber hammer freed it.

I have removed the H/E every 1-2 years, and if it is ‘sticky’ I would recommend at most acid on the ends, and gentle tapping to and fro as you suggest, having of course removed the O-rings (later replaced with new ones).


I have given my opinion before that acid cleaning of the H/E element, unless really necessary to remove a level of scaling I have never encountered, will simply destroy the passivation on it and increase consumption of the anode. I simply poke out any particles (rarely found) with a wooden skewer.

I would recommend that the OP adopt those patient approaches and (if he has not done so in the past) regularly remove the H/E element in future, when I would hope that ‘sticking’ would rarely if ever occur.

 

[Poey50]

I have given my opinion before that acid cleaning of the H/E element, unless really necessary to remove a level of scaling I have never encountered, will simply destroy the passivation on it and increase consumption of the anode. I simply poke out any particles (rarely found) with a wooden skewer.

That sounds important - would that be true of Rydlyme which I think contains about 10% HCl?

 

[Hydrozoan]

That sounds important - would that be true of Rydlyme which I think contains about 10% HCl?

I am sorry - I was for brevity using 'acid' to cover any descaling agent: acid, chelating agent or mixture thereof. All will tend to dissolve the protective surface layer (probably a basic copper carbonate, or perhaps copper oxide) which will form on the H/E core, and thus increase anode consumption until it reforms.