RYA Yachtmaster Exams

[nightjar]

Back in 1978, I booked my wife and myself onto a sailing course with a RYA recognised sailing school mainly to see if the other half would enjoy "living" aboard for 6 days and also to sow the idea that buying a boat was not a bad idea! We had both sailed on other peoples boats but had little experience.The week was enjoyable and we learnt a lot of pratical tips that I use to this day. The skipper was excellent and made the week a success. It was however a suprise to be awarded a "Coastal Skipper" certificate after just one week of instruction and no classroom work or qualifications what so ever. While I was delighted to hold a Coastal Skipper qualification I did not think I had the experience to justify the award. Have times changed over 25 years; I don't think so.

In 2000 a friend who had logged some miles sailing as my crew went to a well known RYA School in the Solent area to do the Yachtmaster Theory course and exam. He had a very basic knowledge of navigation, collision regs etc but was by the end of the course a holder of the RYA Yachtmaster Theory certificate; he is now better qualified than I am as I have never done any of the theory courses.

I may be unfair but I don't think the RYA certificates are worth the paper they are written on. Like all professions there are good sailing instructors, I had an excellent one back in 1978, but I am equally convinced there are some RYA Instructors who do not have the skills and experience to justify their "tickets" any more than I did when I was handed a Coastal Skipper back in 1978.

As a parting comment, I know of one Yachtmaster Instructor who did has exam on a National Sailing School Contessa 32 some years ago; they finished the course by sailing up the Medina past the chain ferry. Unfortunately the wind died at a critical moment and the Contessa was snared by the chains of the fery and finished up with a hole through the topsides. Good seamanship and instruction, I leave you to decide. By the way he passed !

 

[Chris_Stannard]

Interesting. About 10 years ago I took my Yachtmaster after saining for may years with no qualifications. as I have a DoT master's ticket I was spared the theory and just took the practical. The other candidate was a Coastal skipper candidate. He took about 10 goes to pick up a man overboard and there was no way I would have wanted to sail with him in charge. But he passed and I have seen him on the water with a charter boat since.

Inciddentally it is the practical which counts, book learning helps, but you have to be able to do it where it counts, on the water.

Chris Stannard

 

[Chris_Stannard]

Interesting. About 10 years ago I took my Yachtmaster after sailing for many years with no qualifications. As I have a DoT master's ticket I was spared the theory and just took the practical. The other candidate was a Coastal skipper candidate. He took about 10 goes to pick up a man overboard and there was no way I would have wanted to sail with him in charge. But he passed and I have seen him on the water with a charter boat since.

Incidentally it is the practical which counts, book learning helps, but you have to be able to do it where it counts, on the water.

Chris Stannard

 

[Guest]

Am not sure what point you are making. Would you prefer that no one did the RYA courses? Do you think that yachtsmen would be as safe and capable if the courses were abolished? If so, I certainly dont agree.

Yachting is, for most of us, a hobby. The RYA take a very practical view that there is not point in having courses so difficult that only a few pass. After all, how many would then bother to try. Instead, they have designed a system of exams of gradually increasing difficulty, and lots of people volunteer to take them.

Yes, there are faults in the system. Without doubt, some of the courses are separate only because that increases RYA income. And like anything which relies on volunteers, there will be sharp variations in the standard of instructors / examiners. But i believe that the system works well overall.

and why is it that in the uk you always get someone peddling the line that paper qualifications dont count - what matters is practical experience. truth is, you need both. no amount of practical sea time will teach you meteorology or navigation - you have to learn the theory from someone else whether that is in a class room afloat or on land.

 

[Guest]

Please dont be so quick to knock the RYA, overall they do a good job and rely on people like me that teach the various courses. For my part I teach powerboat courses and would be the first to admit that candidates that I pass are not instant "experts" its rather like taking your driving test you get to a "minimum" level, then you have to go out and learn to be good at it. You yourself said "that you were given a Coastal skippers ticket" I bet you beleive you deserve it now. I get a lot of pleasure from teaching "raw" canidates how to handle a boat and to see their faces when they achieve what they thought was impossible 3 hours earlier is reward enough. I dont charge for my time (but my club does) I do it to pass on some of my experience to the sport I love. Sure you can get good and bad teachers in any walk of life, but their hearts in the right place. Providing the candidate gets to the minimum level laid down by the RYA that should be as good as starting place as any for them to go on and learn more.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

As you know from previous posts I do most of my sailing in the Med .When I meet up with, Barry Neilson, owner of ,Sailing Holidays .He always states that his clients with YM cert , get into the most trouble, It must give them a sense, of being better than others clients. And God help you if you meet anyone that has been given a Cert from Sunsail I think these people have been given a liecense to drive bulldozers! Cheers bobt

Bob T

 

[pugwash]

It\'s the skidpan syndrome

It was either the Surrey Police or the AA (I was working with both at the time) who told me that (statistically speaking) drivers with skidpan and high-speed driving experience get into worse trouble than those who don't. Why? Because they think they can do it all and push the limits. Maybe it's the same thing here.

 

[andrewhopkins]

Practical v Theory

I dont doubt that anyone with some kind of numerical ability can be taken from the street and pass the yachtmaster theory after a week's intensive training. Its just memory and maths!

However, the practical exam is much harder and any good school should be tough on pupils.

My recommendation is Southern Sailing which I only hear good reports about. They have horrible old boats but the teaching is excellent. A friend of mine was with 3 other people and the tutor would not put up 2 of them for the yachtmaster exam as he said they wouldnt pass and was wasting their money.

My friend did pass.

 

[andy_wilson]

You are talking about two very different qualifications.

Costal Skipper Course Completion Certificate means that the sailor has a certain minimum experience prior to the course, and has participated in several practical exercises, some of which many sailors with theory papers would not know where or how to start to resolve.

The Coastal Skipper / Yachtmaster Theory Examination proves that the successful candidate has an 80% or better recall of IRPCS and can navigate a desk to 2 decimal places in a sheltered classroom without the aid of Stugeron but coffee etc. is allowed.

I have the latter but would probably have prefered the former yesterday when the gooseneck broke off St. Albans Head and down came the boom in 35 solid knots of wind.

As sods law of sailing says things go wrong in threes, the violent seas pulled a wire off a very well clamped battery causing loss of VHF and GPS, and I left the handheld switched on from Saturday so that was flat too (just as well really, if I had radioed in they would only have come to rescue us).

Flailing mains'l, no GPS, no VHF, no handheld.. thats 4!

That's when you realise that actually plotting to the nearest minute (mile) will do just fine, a lash-up job is desireable, and the ability to control a yacht in a variety of conditions and with a variety of means is something that only comes with practice.

Which you might get doing the Coastal Practical?

As for your man and the chain ferry, nothing ventured nothing gained. Next time I bet he knew the wind would die at the chain ferry... it usually does.

 

[Guest]

I suggest that you buy a copy of RYA publication G 15 where you will find the difference between a Yachtmaster Certificate of Competence and the experience required before you can even take the exam, and a Certificate of Course Completion which is awarded to successful students at the end of an RYA course.
NB You can only obtain a Yachtmaster Certificate by taking an exam aboard a yacht in the presence of a Yachtmaster Examiner which lasts from 8 to 12 hours. Sailing Schools, Charterers etc do not issue YM Certs.

 

[alant]

Presumably your friend with the Yachtmaster 'Theory' or Shorebased Completion Certificate, like so many others, now exhibits himself to all in sundry as a Yachtmaster!!!!
As an Instructor, I would not be suprised by this & suggest you beware anyone making similar claims before you trust your nearest & dearest on their boat.
Many seem to take a choice on 'Thursday' winter evenings, between ''will it be conversational Spanish or Advanced navigation this year" - it is possible to obtain an RYA 'Ocean' Theory ticket without having even been on the Serpentine!
The 'practical' assesment should be for your benefit - am I really capable and confident enough to undertake this trip etc, not simply 'badge' collecting.
I unfortunately also know many fully fledged 'yachtmasters' I would not trust, as well as many non-qualified 'skippers' I would trust with my life anywhere.
An RYA certificate is only an indication of capability - ask any charter company who are pursued by newly qualified yachtmaster 'skippers' for work.

 

[Guest]

The British way is best !

The beauty about the RYA and RNLI Peter is that people like yourself bring ENTHUSIASM to teaching because of the kick you get out of it.

These type of British organisations serve us well because of their unique set up's.

Think back to you're schooldays. Who was the master that you learned from the most and who had the least trouble ? That's right, it was the one who was genuinely interested in the subject and showed enthusiasm - it's catching.

Perhaps that is what's lacking in schools today.

 

[cgull]

Does a yachtmaster practical pass mean that you are a good skipper. I have long beleived that a yachtmaster and skipper are different. Was pleased to read this also in the book The Mind Of a Sailor which I have just started to read.
I passed my Coastal Practical ok but reckon I coud have got the YM as the guy who passed at YM level made several errors. Then when I did YM practical I failed on blind nav(had to do it twice unexpectedly),first time was perfect,second time it all went wrongexam boat had no working log. Anyway examiner was first class and very very thorough and good to be examined by and I thought fair. However other candidate (from overseas)never sailed tidal waters,no First aid or aany other RYA certs,no theory,no log,no passages, and didnt know what a passage plan was passed,much to his own surprise as he only took the exam for the experience.

I have found the whole process very inconsistent.

 

[Guest]

Like so many others on these threads you say you passed your coastal skipper practical ok - but your coastal skipper practical WHAT? Course or exam? One leads to a course completion certificate after a 5 days course while the other results in a certificate of competence after an examination with a Yachtmaster Examiner which includes a section called "ability as a skipper".

 

[jimi]

From what I can gather one is an a certificate of attendance which will only not be awarded where it is considered dangerous for the attendee to be a skipper, the exam assesses whether you are competent.

 

[Guest]

Well spotted! I have been banging on about the distinction for weeks now on various threads. The only thing you are not quite accurate with is that a course completion certificate is a certificate of SUCCESSFUL course completion e.g. for a theory course you must pass the final assessment papers as well as show general improvement throughout the course.

 

[seahorse]

Re: RYA Exams IF the RYA read this

Then in view of the comments & concern expressed in other threads then perhaps they will clarify the situation re Exams.
There is obviously a need for a bit of QA & levelling of standards!

 

[peterb]

Re: RYA Exams IF the RYA read this

For my club I run refresher courses prior to Coastal Skipper and Yachtmaster exams, and have been doing it for twenty years or so. In that time I've probably been on board during exams by a dozen or so examiners. I've found that the examiners all seem to have different ideas on how to run the exam, and how long it should take.

One examiner (now dead, unfortunately) could appear at the boat at 0700, examine three candidates, and be off by 1400. Another reckons that it is impossible to test two candidates in less than 24 hours, and needs a complete weekend to test three candidates. Some can appear to be quite strict, while others seem very helpful and jolly.

By the end of a five day refresher course I usually have a fair idea as to whether a candidate will pass or fail. And the funny thing is that even with the wide differences in methods of running the exam, the people I expect to pass do pass, and the people I expect to fail do fail. In other words, the examiner's methods may be different, bur their standards of pass or fail are remarkably similar.

Incidentally, of the various examiners I've seen, the one that gave the most searching and yet the fairest exam was probably the one that could examine three candidates between 0700 and 1400. I'll never be an examiner myself (for one thing, I'm too old now) but if I were, then I would probably use him as a model.

 

[Mirelle]

Re: RYA Exams IF the RYA read this

That sounds right to me.

My sister obtained her YM Offshore certificate in the 1970's after a day on the examiner's Contessa 32 in F7-8. After writing out her pass certificate he asked her age - she had been in heavy duty oilies, and drenched with rain and spray, all day - and was horrified to find that he had just handed out a certificate to the youngest person to qualify at that time! But I don't think he made a mistake.

 

[jimi]

Sorry, I should have said PRACTICAL examination as you can pass the theory without even have seen a boat, or the sea or even a rubber duck.