RYA Safetrx

[DanTribe]

I've just had a reminder from rya that I need to update my Safetrx / CG66 entry.
I've done so but it does seem a bit of a faff, and not sure that it suits my needs.
Does anyone else use this regularly?

 

[Sandy]

Nope. The data is standing data and only needs updated if there is a change.

I have yet to hear the Coast Guard ask if your have a Safetrx entry and wonder if they use it.

 

[Boathook]

I'm registered on it with boat and contact details, etc, but I don't actually use it when I go sailing. If family want to know where I am they can normally ring me and I also I encourage them to use an AIS app to 'see' me as majority of times that is on even for a sail round the bay.

 

[lustyd]

have yet to hear the Coast Guard ask if your have a Safetrx entry and wonder if they use it.

They don’t need to ask, just like with the old coastguard version. They just look up the details as needed.

 

[Sandy]

They don’t need to ask, just like with the old coastguard version. They just look up the details as needed.

Then why do they request all sorts of information about a boats description during a mayday or pan-pan? Does Sod's Law state that if you are not on the system you will need to call the CG?

 

[wonkywinch]

Then why do they request all sorts of information about a boats description during a mayday or pan-pan? Does Sod's Law state that if you are not on the system you will need to call the CG?

Because there will be a pro forma to fill in for legal reasons/hunting for wreckage/bodies etc.

That's why we learn the standard info required in the radio courses and many people (self included) keep a laminated card by the radio because under stress, I will probably forget.

I've heard quite a few pan & Mayday calls in the Solent where the poor old CG has to waste time collecting all the required info before they can get on with the "now, what assistance do you require".

 

[lustyd]

Then why do they request all sorts of information about a boats description during a mayday or pan-pan? Does Sod's Law state that if you are not on the system you will need to call the CG?

Mostly to give the skipper something to focus on and stay calm I believe, and to keep them on the radio so comms are reliable when needed.
If the skipper is busy and tells them so they skip it. Also it confirms what they have.

 

[boomerangben]

Because there will be a pro forma to fill in for legal reasons/hunting for wreckage/bodies etc.

That's why we learn the standard info required in the radio courses and many people (self included) keep a laminated card by the radio because under stress, I will probably forget.

I've heard quite a few pan & Mayday calls in the Solent where the poor old CG has to waste time collecting all the required info before they can get on with the "now, what assistance do you require".

You can be certain that whilst you are giving details, the wheels will be in motion in the back ground assigning appropriate assets.

 

[Mark-1]

You can be certain that whilst you are giving details, the wheels will be in motion in the back ground assigning appropriate assets.

Mostly to give the skipper something to focus on and stay calm I believe, and to keep them on the radio so comms are reliable when needed.
If the skipper is busy and tells them so they skip it. Also it confirms what they have.

I hope you're both right because I've found it quite chilling over the years to hear people in quite dire situations while the CGs "waste time collecting all the required info before they can get on with the "now, what assistance do you require".".

Having said that I suspect you are right. Given that it might be better if they said "Help is on the way to the guy who is coughing up blood after his face was torn off by a shark. Now while you're waiting we need to fill in a form. What colour shirt did you wear last Thursday?"

 

[lustyd]

Given that it might be better if they said "Help is on the way

They quite specifically avoid saying help is on the way most of the time, as people tend to give up doing anything at that point and start to feel too safe.

 

[wonkywinch]

I don't think CG will be asking anything superfluous. Just needs standard stuff plus any info to help them get on with the job of aiding you.

Someone on this forum recently told me they thought lifejackets were for novice or nervous sailors.

How to make a VHF radio Mayday call & Pan Pan call - Yachting Monthly

 

[wonkywinch]

I hope you're both right because I've found it quite chilling over the years to hear people in quite dire situations while the CGs "waste time collecting all the required info before they can get on with the "now, what assistance do you require".".

Having said that I suspect you are right. Given that it might be better if they said "Help is on the way to the guy who is coughing up blood after his face was torn off by a shark. Now while you're waiting we need to fill in a form. What colour shirt did you wear last Thursday?"

For the record, I didn't suggest CG wouldn't have already pushed a big red button but taken to it's extreme how could they start dealing with a call that simply said "Mayday, we're sinking"?

 

[Mark-1]

They quite specifically avoid saying help is on the way most of the time, as people tend to give up doing anything at that point and start to feel too safe.

Thanks that's good to know.

 

[wonkywinch]

You've probably seen this before but we watched a documentary about the Costa Concordia recently and was reminded that sometimes the CG really does have to take control of the situation.

 

[dunedin]

….
I've heard quite a few pan & Mayday calls in the Solent whe the poor old CG has to waste time collecting all the required info before they can get on with the "now, what assistance do you require".

My fear is that the CG staff are not familiar with small boats, and their procedure is too inflexible, asking for lots of things like MMSI and Call Sign which are often irrelevant, and certainly less urgent than finding out what the emergency is.
Like others, I fear the SafeTrx (CG66 replacement) is largely wasted, as only once heard them ask if on SafeTrx.

It might be that MMSI is useful to ensure have the right vessel in a crowded Solent, but not when yacht Lonely has an emergency in more remote waters. And the CG can read the MMSI from the screen from the DSC Mayday already sent.

 

[Mark-1]

For the record, I didn't suggest CG wouldn't have already pushed a big red button but taken to it's extreme how could they start dealing with a call that simply said "Mayday, we're sinking"?

I've always thought the two bits of information they *need* is position and the fact you need assistance ASAP.

I understand that they want two different position sources to avoid confusion but that can be a big ask. If I was knocked out by a meteor my 7yo son could take the helm, turn on the Radio, select 16 and talk. He could (with luck) give a position in terms of "I'm near West Princessa" because I always make sure he's aware of where he is for all sorts of reasons. Yes, it won't be metre perfect and he might even be wrong but it's the best we can do. The idea he could find and read a 14 digit GPS position under pressure without a mistake is for the birds. (Actually, I could make that easier for him but it doesn't change the point, not everyone has two different position sources.) I don't have a laminated Mayday card precisely because I don't want him wasting his brain energy on saying mayday or the vessel name the right number of times when what matters is his position.

I've heard the situation where position format became an issue IRL - a boat gave a pin point position relative to a bouy but couldn't easily give a lat long. It sounded to me like it held up the rescue for something that seemed like box ticking to me. This thread suggests that the rescue may have been in progress anyway, but it didn't sound like that and the guy in trouble definitely thought his rescue was delayed for the lack of a position in the same format as the CG form and became very distressed. As did I, and I was only listening!

That's a lot of words to say I think, if required, the CG could get away with a lot less information than they ask for, but if they ask for it in slow time while the the rescue is underway then great. (Again, the comments in this thread suggest that is very close to what actually happens.)

 

[wonkywinch]

I don't know why RYA schools are hung up on the full set of GPS lat/longs. The third digit after the decimal is approx 1.8m and the second after the decimal only 18m definition (ie a boat length or two), so even one decimal place is enough to get somebody within 180m.

 

[Lightwave395]

I've only had one 'proper' interaction with the coastguard, a couple of years ago.
I was sailing solo from Roscoff to Falmouth and my OH was following me on marinetraffic when I 'disappeared' off the tracker in the early hours with quite a few fishing boats around me.
She kept watching for a while then panicked and called the local Solent coastguard, who passed her on to Falmouth, who calmed her, having called me direct on VHF and confirmed I was fine.
The CG guy I spoke with also confirmed I was in a 12M dark blue hull / white deck sailboat travelling at around 6 knots and was about 15 miles SE of the Lizard. The boat has an AIS transponder,
I don't know if that was where the info he had came from, I had filled my departure form in when the boat left the UK three years earlier.
I tried Safetrx once, seemed a waste of time to me

 

[Mark-1]

I don't know why RYA schools are hung up on the full set of GPS lat/longs.

I've no idea what the RYA think about this but I've always *thought* the CG want the full set because that's the number of digits their form has space for. Now I know this: "Mostly to give the skipper something to focus on and stay calm I believe, and to keep them on the radio so comms are reliable when needed." I'm starting to wonder if that's a big part of it. I'd rather be squinting at numbers on the plotter than looking at someone's gaping flesh wound so passing on needless detail might be good for my long term mental health, if frustrating and terrifying at the time.

It's been explained on here that the reason for wanting a GPS position in addition to "I'm clinging to Princes Consort" is to confirm the position is correct which makes a lot of sense, but checking the details can be done in parallel with the rescue. (and it sounds like it is, so all is well.)

 

[ylop]

My fear is that the CG staff are not familiar with small boats, and their procedure is too inflexible,

I think that is probably misplaced. The vast majority of the calls I here (whether routine or distress) are from small vessels. I've heard them adapt quickly to the level of distress/confusion on board too.

asking for lots of things like MMSI and Call Sign which are often irrelevant, and certainly less urgent than finding out what the emergency is.
Like others, I fear the SafeTrx (CG66 replacement) is largely wasted, as only once heard them ask if on SafeTrx.

I don't know why they want a call sign - you can call me with my call sign and I'll not recognise it. Possibly the only reason I would notice is I have never heard anyone called by their call sign on marine VHF! I've used SafeTrx, the only time I've had to use it on a VHF call was to tell the CG that I was out of phone signal so unable to confirm my safe arrival and they should expect a stressed call from my shore contact shortly!

It might be that MMSI is useful to ensure have the right vessel in a crowded Solent, but not when yacht Lonely has an emergency in more remote waters. And the CG can read the MMSI from the screen from the DSC Mayday already sent.

I can see that MMSI has some advantage - by being unique they can ensure that DSC Mayday from 12345678 is the same mayday being received by voice from SV Lonely. If SV Lonely had just collided with FV Daydreamer there could well be multiple distress calls from the same area.

It's been explained on here that the reason for wanting a GPS position in addition to "I'm clinging to Princes Consort" is to confirm the position is correct which makes a lot of sense, but checking the details can be done in parallel with the rescue. (and it sounds like it is, so all is well.)

It removes the ambiguity of places with similar sounding names; mistakes with N/S E/W (are you 1 mike North of the light house or is it 1 mile North of you), etc. I've never heard them say please give more decimal places - I suspect most people just read the whole display? 180m could be the wrong side of a headland.

Then why do they request all sorts of information about a boats description during a mayday or pan-pan? Does Sod's Law state that if you are not on the system you will need to call the CG?

Whilst we all think we have been very original with our boat names they would want to be sure they have the right (and recent and up-to-date) details about your vessel. How many Nauti-bouy/Nauti-boy/Naughty Boy/Naughty Bouy's etc are in the database? How many people change their boat (or say the canvass or topside colours) and don't update the details. I've never heard them ask for those details before arranging help - but if you've made a "proper" mayday call they will have the key information first.