RYA ICC renewal

[Tranona]

I wonder what would happen if the RYA (a commercial organisation) decided to drop issuing the ICC. They are (as a commercial organisation) not compelled to take on this service.

What would the UN do then?

It is not the UN's job to decide who issues it. It is a governmental responsibility. In some countries it is the government itself that issues the ICC alongside their state "boat driving licence" (for want of a better term) and a charge is made. In other countries, including the UK the government delegates the job to an appropriate body - in the UK to RYA and the British Subaqua Club. It is pretty obvious the RYA is the appropriate body as the government also delegates training and the issuing of certification to that body. It is a moot point whether the RYA is a commercial organisation in this context as many of the ICCs issued are not sold as discrete transactions but provided as members' benefits.

 

[vyv_cox]

I believe that the issuing of the ICC was triggered not by the UN but by various countries not accepting that British yotties didnt need / have driving licences. The YM cert was not acceptable to most since it was only in English and without a photo anyway so the RYA chose to start issuing the ICC.

Are you sure you are not confusing the ICC with the SSR?

 

[Koeketiene]

I wonder what would happen if the RYA (a commercial organisation) decided to drop issuing the ICC. They are (as a commercial organisation) not compelled to take on this service.

What would the UN do then?

Why would they do that? It's a nice little earner for the RYA.

 

[maxi77]

Are you sure you are not confusing the ICC with the SSR?

There was an earlier ICC which was issued by the RYA. Rather than a test you simply had your application endorsed by your club commodore.

 

[VicMallows]

There was an earlier ICC which was issued by the RYA. Rather than a test you simply had your application endorsed by your club commodore.

Yes, it was called the Helmsmans-Overseas-Ceritificate-Of-Competence (HOCC).

If you got around to it in time, you were able to 'grandfather' it into an ICC without any further tests. (Still had to do a CEVNI test if you wanted the endorsement).

Vic

 

[vyv_cox]

There was an earlier ICC which was issued by the RYA. Rather than a test you simply had your application endorsed by your club commodore.

Yes, I had one. I don't believe it had anything to do with foreign concerns over UK skipper capabilities though.

 

[chinita]

But why should the RYA have the monopoly on issuing the ICC?

Should it not be open to tender like any other government contract?

 

[rob2]

I guess the RYA still have the monopoly for the same reason they were originally asked to do it. As the only recognised body for training and certification, they already have the only records on hand to authenticate existing competent persons and the infrastructure to offer testing of other candidates. I'm pretty sure the whole process is much cheaper in the UK than in any other EU nation!

Rob.

 

[Koeketiene]

I guess the RYA still have the monopoly for the same reason they were originally asked to do it. As the only recognised body for training and certification, they already have the only records on hand to authenticate existing competent persons and the infrastructure to offer testing of other candidates. I'm pretty sure the whole process is much cheaper in the UK than in any other EU nation!

It depends how you look at it - in Belgium the ICC costs €60, but it does NOT expire.

When my UK/RYA ICC was about to expire, I traded it in, paid the €60 and now I'm sorted for life.

 

[Lucky Duck]

It depends how you look at it - in Belgium the ICC costs €60, but it does NOT expire.

When my UK/RYA ICC was about to expire, I traded it in, paid the €60 and now I'm sorted for life.

So much for the 5 year period being mandated by the UN?

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

But why should the RYA have the monopoly on issuing the ICC?

Should it not be open to tender like any other government contract?

They don't have a monopoly. And its not a contract that's up for tender because any organisiation that can meet the required standard could become recognised to issue them, its so happens that there are very few organisation equipped to do it

You can get an ICC through BSAC, however BSAC are only accredited to issue the Power up to 10m ICC and only for coastal waters. £35 for non members, £15 for members.

You could also get your ICC from BWS, again they are only accredited to issue the power up to 10m, however they do inland and coastal, price is £25 for the ICC and only available to members, membership is a further £68.

You could also go to IYT, who unlike the RYA are a commercial organisation, I don't know how much they charge but I would bet my last dollar that they charge more than the RYA.

Getting an ICC in the UK is far more straightforward than doing so in most European countries and I believe also cheaper, the RYA system could not really be more straightforward. Sadly a number of forum members use it as part of their regular RYA bashing, despite not actually knowing all of the facts.

 

[chinita]

unlike the RYA are a commercial organisation.

So the RYA is not a commercial organisation.

Which part of the Public Sector are they?

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

So the RYA is not a commercial organisation.

Which part of the Public Sector are they?

Are you suggesting that every organisation that is not part of the public sector is commercial?

 

[Tranona]

So the RYA is not a commercial organisation.

Which part of the Public Sector are they?

That is a pointless argument. Like many organisations it can be seen as (and indeed be legally recognised) many things, depending on the activity it is undertaking and the source of its finance. It can be described as a members organisation (because it collects membership fees and provides services to members), a "commercial" organisation because it buys and sells things, a charity because some of its activities have charitable status, a government funded quango, a recognised national sporting body - and no doubt many other things as well.

It is currently going through a restructuring to bring its governance structure in line with latest legal requirements and best practice. Members will shortly receive details of the new structure and reporting following the recent AGM.

The Annual Report and Accounts for 2011 are available on the website and careful reading will give you a good indication of the different activities it undertakes and the relevant size (in money terms) of those activities. If you are a member you can always ask for further explanation if there is something you do not understand about the organisation.

 

[chinita]

Are you suggesting that every organisation that is not part of the public sector is commercial?

No, but this seems to negate your statement that the RYA is not a commercial organisation:

Companies Act Regulatory Information

The following information is provided in keeping with the Companies (Registrar, Languages and Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2006 (SI 2006/3429) relating to electronic business communications.

The Royal Yachting Association is a company limited by guarantee and is registered in England.

Registered business number 878357.

Registered business address;
RYA House, Ensign Way, Hamble, Southampton SO31 4YA.

VAT registration number 239281352
Contact Us

 

[Cardo]

No, but this seems to negate your statement that the RYA is not a commercial organisation:

Companies Act Regulatory Information

The following information is provided in keeping with the Companies (Registrar, Languages and Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2006 (SI 2006/3429) relating to electronic business communications.

The Royal Yachting Association is a company limited by guarantee and is registered in England.

Registered business number 878357.

Registered business address;
RYA House, Ensign Way, Hamble, Southampton SO31 4YA.

VAT registration number 239281352
Contact Us

How about - It's a "not for profit organisation"? Would that apply?

 

[tarik]

ICC Portugal , Azores and Spain

Is the ICC required in any of the above three locations?


Thanks


David

 

[Tranona]

No, but this seems to negate your statement that the RYA is not a commercial organisation:

Companies Act Regulatory Information

The following information is provided in keeping with the Companies (Registrar, Languages and Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2006 (SI 2006/3429) relating to electronic business communications.

The Royal Yachting Association is a company limited by guarantee and is registered in England.

Registered business number 878357.

Registered business address;
RYA House, Ensign Way, Hamble, Southampton SO31 4YA.

VAT registration number 239281352
Contact Us

That is its legal status.

Please read the accounts to find out what sort of activities it is engaged in. "Commercial" is only a catch all term that has no definitive meaning in a legal sense - it only means what you want it to mean.

Of course the RYA carries out activities that one might consider "commercial" in the everyday meaning of the word - that is it buys and sells things at a profit and those profits are used to fund other activities in the interests of the members.

In that sense it is no different from just about any major charity, member organisation or other "not for profit" organisations such as universities. The RNLI for example has a massive "commercial" activity, but as with the RYA any profits are used to pursue the charity's objective. Such charities also legally operate as a company limited by guarantee, because that is the legal form required. They do not have shareholders (the liabilities being guaranteed by the members) and all benefits from commercial activities accrue to the members, for example to keep subscriptions down and fund activities and services that are not directly charged to members or non- members. Therefore, when non-members want a service (such as an ICC) it is not unreasonable that they should pay for that service - after all they are the only ones who benefit from it.

 

[chinita]

Is the ICC required in any of the above three locations?


Thanks


David

Tranona will answer that better than I can. However, Spain and Portugal did not sign up to Resolution 40 and therefore, technically, do not recognise the ICC.

Of course, that does not mean that they will not demand to see one!

As others have said (and I agree) better to have one than not.

 

[maxi77]

Is the ICC required in any of the above three locations?


Thanks


David

So far in Portugal itself I have not been asked for mine, but equally I have not been asked for my light dues receipt either, and they can and do ask for that. At the end of the day if you have it you do not get the hassle, and I for one do not subscribe to the idea of testing officialdom in foreign countries.