RYA ICC renewal

[tarik]

Just had my ICC renewal reminder - another £40.00 is it really necessary? What are the benefits for a boat owner, does it reduce insurance rates?

I know I that I have done the various courses - who else needs top know?


David

 

[sailorman]

if you are an RYA member i think its free

 

[vyv_cox]

It is quite common in most countries abroad to be asked to see your 'driving licence'. I imagine that in some of them it would be an offence not to have one, possibly resulting in a fine. Yes, I am aware that technically it is not necessary for a UK owner, but try convincing a Portuguese policeman of that in his language. Probably most useful after an incident of some sort.

 

[VicMallows]

Its only value is to keep some officials in other countries happy - especially on the inland waterways.

A nice little earner for the RYA (or recruitment incentive if, like many, you join in order to get it free for 5yrs.... and then continue your membership every year through inertia.). I wonder for how long their franchise to issue it lasts??

Vic

 

[johnphilip]

Timely reminder

Thanks for the memory nudge, I kept my RYA membership last year just so as to renew my ICC, which I did. Recent successes by the RYA on red diesel and e-borders suggest that continuing to support them as an effective lobby group is not value for money so I have just cancelled my subscription which would be due in January. I think one of the final insults by the RYA was to be given "Gold" membership. Labelling us as old coffin dodgers without giving any meaningful benefit, such as concessionary subscription rates. I resented this.

 

[ukmctc]

Just had my ICC renewal reminder - another £40.00 is it really necessary? What are the benefits for a boat owner, does it reduce insurance rates?

I know I that I have done the various courses - who else needs top know?


David

No, and No. Its not usually asked for overseas, and if you really want one, download a copy from the internet and use that overseas, no-one will know except you.

 

[Skysail]

This has been discussed before. It is not the RYA which requires 5 year renewal, and other countries charge a great deal more.

It is only required abroad, and I would not like a douanier to discover that mine had been downloaded from the internet; whatever that means..... and wherever would you find it?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Just had my ICC renewal reminder - another £40.00 is it really necessary? What are the benefits for a boat owner, does it reduce insurance rates?

I've tried to find a list of places where ICCs are required for "normal" sized sailing vessels and as far as I can tell nowhere. (Greece and Croatia are often cited as foreign countries that require them - but that turned out to be *******s.)

Some French inland waters. (But not the main ones of interest to salt water sailors, and if you hire a boat locally you don't need it anyway.)

I'd be interested if anyone else has found some nations that legally require ICCs for visitors in UK flagged leisure sailing vessels (of 'normal' length) and what the penalty is for failing to present one. (Also any verifiable reports of actual prosecutions.)

Also it's a complete fiction that the RYA are somehow forced to require renew every five years. All they are required to do is renew it at intervals. They've chosen the period of 5 years & could have chosen 20 years or 50 years. Wonder why they didnt?

 

[maxi77]

I've tried to find a list of places where ICCs are required for "normal" sized sailing vessels and as far as I can tell nowhere. (Greece and Croatia are often cited as foreign countries that require them - but that turned out to be *******s.)

Some French inland waters. (But not the main ones of interest to salt water sailors, and if you hire a boat locally you don't need it anyway.)

I'd be interested if anyone else has found some nations that legally require ICCs for visitors in UK flagged leisure sailing vessels (of 'normal' length) and what the penalty is for failing to present one. (Also any verifiable reports of actual prosecutions.)

Also it's a complete fiction that the RYA are somehow forced to require renew every five years. All they are required to do is renew it at intervals. They've chosen the period of 5 years & could have chosen 20 years or 50 years. Wonder why they didnt?

Strange, the last country where my ICC was checked specifically was Greece, so perhaps it is not bull excrement. The only other country was Spain.

 

[chinita]

Strange, the last country where my ICC was checked specifically was Greece, so perhaps it is not bull excrement. The only other country was Spain.

Even stranger when you consider that only Greece, Spain and Portugal refused to accept Resolution 40 - and therefore do not recognise the ICC at all.

 

[Tranona]

Just had my ICC renewal reminder - another £40.00 is it really necessary? What are the benefits for a boat owner, does it reduce insurance rates?

I know I that I have done the various courses - who else needs top know?


David

When you renew you will get an explanatory note from the RYA showing what the ICC is about, and why it may (or may not) be useful to you. You will also find more detailed information on their site which explains further its origin and some idea of countries that accept it or demand it of visitors. You can access this before you renew.

You will then be much better informed about its relevance to you and whether you want to spend the money rather than listening to ill informed comment from some on here. However, you will find if you have the patience and do a search on the subject, that the information provided by the RYA (and the CA) reflects reasonably accurately what UK sailors experience abroad, either cruising or chartering boats in other countries.

 

[chinita]

that the information provided by the RYA (and the CA) reflects reasonably accurately what UK sailors experience abroad, either cruising or chartering boats in other countries.

I think you are rather overstating the place these two organisations occupy in the minds of cruising yachtsmen.

The information they provide is only as good as the information they are given - by their members. Not every cruising yachtsman is a member, let alone one who would wish to spend their time providing details of their experiences abroad.

The ICC may be enforced, or it may not. It may be enforced by a country which has signed up to Resolution 40 or a country which has not signed up, or it may not. Who knows? Answer: nobody - not 'even' the RYA. Otherwise they could give categoric information rather than 'guidelines'.

 

[Tranona]

I think you are rather overstating the place these two organisations occupy in the minds of cruising yachtsmen.

The information they provide is only as good as the information they are given - by their members. Not every cruising yachtsman is a member, let alone one who would wish to spend their time providing details of their experiences abroad.

The ICC may be enforced, or it may not. It may be enforced by a country which has signed up to Resolution 40 or a country which has not signed up, or it may not. Who knows? Answer: nobody - not 'even' the RYA. Otherwise they could give categoric information rather than 'guidelines'.

That is exactly my point. The RYA qualifies its information and makes it very clear that there are often not definitve answers. That is why you have to ignore some people here who are very dogmatic about what is acceptable and where.

However, there are many, many reports which support the usefulness of having an ICC even where its legitimacy is maybe in question. Perhaps more importantly enforcement is very variable, even in countries where there is no requirement to have some form of evidence of comptence, so it is perhaps unwise not to have it.

Of course, if you have no intention of venturing abroad you do not need it. If you are going into certain inland waterways (which are well identified) with your own boat it is essential - even if you are rarely asked, because the penalties can be severe. If you are cruising the Med it is sensible to have it because the variable attention of officials, even acting outside their rights can be a pain. If you are chartering, the charter company will tell you whether you need it or not - not necessarily because it is a strict requirement, but because you may not get your local charter permit without it. Will stop there as I am only paraphrasing what is in the RYA information which anybody can read for themselves.

The OP has the advantage of holding the right certificates to qualify him. His choice is therefore dependent on where he intends sailing. Intrinsically the piece of paper is pretty worthless - its only value is in warding off the attention of officials in other countries.

 

[prv]

I would not like a douanier to discover that mine had been downloaded from the internet; whatever that means..... and wherever would you find it?

I've just pulled mine out to have a look at. It has an RYA hologram stuck to it, but other than that it looks to have just been printed on slightly-heaver-than-normal paper using a reasonable quality inkjet printer. If the RYA use that hologram on anything else that's easily obtainable, then I'm sure the guy I knew at Uni who supported himself by selling knockoff annual bus passes would be able to produce one indistinguishable short of forensic examination.

Possibly less effort just to go and do the half-day test though, to be honest.

Pete

 

[BrianH]

I've tried to find a list of places where ICCs are required for "normal" sized sailing vessels and as far as I can tell nowhere. (Greece and Croatia are often cited as foreign countries that require them - but that turned out to be *******s.)

I wonder why I have that déjà vu feeling.

Every year I sail my boat across the Adriatic to Croatia. Every year I have to present my set of documents (ship registration, ICC, insurance certificate, short range VHF licence) when declaring in. I have witnessed a skipper (British) refused entry because of no 'certificate of competence' and I know two other skippers, one Austrian and one German, who had to take a test before being able to enter, for which they had to pay heavily.

We have been on this roundabout a number of times and you have been pointed to the Croatian rules of entry, they are on-line here.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

We have been on this roundabout a number of times and you have been pointed to the Croatian rules of entry, they are on-line here.

No Barnacle. I pointed YOU at the rules here:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265932

THE CROATIA ICC REQUIREMENT IS A MYTH.

A myth you had been spreading up until that thread. (See post 7.)

 

[PlanB]

As someone said earlier, if you belong to the RYA, the ICC renewal is free. And if you belong to the RYA, you get a discount on your insurance with Bishop Skinner.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

you have been pointed to the Croatian rules of entry, they are on-line here.

You claimed in post 11 that the list was *new*.

So on the one hand you've patiently told me this stuff before, on the other hand you say it was new when I first posted it.

Priceless.

 

[Blue5]

Even stranger when you consider that only Greece, Spain and Portugal refused to accept Resolution 40 - and therefore do not recognise the ICC at all.

Nothing surprises me any more...........when we got stopped (Portugal) the request was for passport and ICC.............advice I was given was that if travelling outside UK it was better to have it than not.

 

[ukmctc]

Its been my experience that I or the wife have never been asked for the ICC, even when hiring a yacht in Greece for two weeks holiday.
I find that talking to other sailors who have been overseas, hiring and sailing/motoring their own boats that the majority of officials only want your passport (the real one), and in some cases your insurance just to see your liability cover, even then they only give it all a cursory glance.
I even met a few Dutch sailors, who said they don't know anyone with one either. Its one of those euro rules which no-one follows except the RYA in UK, its a few quid in the coffers.
I also seem to remember that there is another one not required for your average boaty, and thats the CEVNI, most boats are way too small, but its another cash for the coffers...RYA, I was told you can purchase this along with the ICC at your port of call for a few euros from the harbour master or official if they ask for it.
There are loads of sailors out there travelling the world who have none of these bits of card and have never been asked for them, my wife for one, shes from NZ.