RYA Helmsman vs. Powerboat Lvl 2 + ICC

Granthsmith

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As I'm now the proud owner of a 27' sports cruiser (single outdrive)and I am going to kick-off with a 2 day training course to get the basic skills required to handle my new toy. Can anyone advise whether I should look to start with the RYA Helmsman or Powerboat Lvl 2 course as they seem very similar? The benefit of the Powerboat as I see it is I can get my ICC at the same time but I'm concerned it may not be directed enough towards motorcruising?
 
I seem to remember doing and Getting my ICC with CEVNI on the Helmsmans course although did the PB2 later,as you say they do seem very simlair
As you may be on the Thames for a season I'd say do the Helmsman course with ICC exam at the end and then decide what you want to do next mebbe Day skipper theory then practical
 
As I'm now the proud owner of a 27' sports cruiser (single outdrive)and I am going to kick-off with a 2 day training course to get the basic skills required to handle my new toy. Can anyone advise whether I should look to start with the RYA Helmsman or Powerboat Lvl 2 course as they seem very similar? The benefit of the Powerboat as I see it is I can get my ICC at the same time but I'm concerned it may not be directed enough towards motorcruising?

I suggest you go for the Powerboat Level 2 course. As you say you get the ICC up to 10 meters which you don't with the helmsman's course. Strictly speaking your size of boat falls into the Powerboat scheme and the PB 2 course will get you up and running quicker than the helmsman which is really about rope work and very basic handling of a motor cruiser. It does not include any navigational or chart work which again the PB 2 does.

If you do the course on your own boat it can be tailored to your needs within the overall syllabus.

Hope that helps, you could always pm me and I'd be happy to discuss in more detail.
 
As I'm now the proud owner of a 27' sports cruiser (single outdrive)and I am going to kick-off with a 2 day training course to get the basic skills required to handle my new toy. Can anyone advise whether I should look to start with the RYA Helmsman or Powerboat Lvl 2 course as they seem very similar? The benefit of the Powerboat as I see it is I can get my ICC at the same time but I'm concerned it may not be directed enough towards motorcruising?
Unless you are going abroad the ICC isnt much use.. you dont need it here in Blighty. I believe it was established by the RYA as in the UK we dont having the legal requirement they have abroad for training.
The PB1+2 is VERY basic.. start/stop, some ropework,bit of engine info,launch and recover,coming along side etc. I guess if its one-to-one, your trainer might take you further along the learning curve, but in group training, there is obviously a fair amount of sitting about while others drive ;)Still, its quite fun, and enables you to get out on the water and have some clue what you are doing. I'd say its a great way to get started in a rib , as it were.
If you intend to start going further afield, and start to need to know about wind,tides,weather forecasts, passage planning,nav symbols,colregs,chartwork.. you need to do a mnore involved course. Actually, you dont need to do a course; if you can learn from books, I think you can get 90pct of the theory just by reading the recommended course material. What you dont get from that, is the anecdotal experience of a tutor, or the shared knowledge of a group. And personally speaking, the real gain of the course (or coursework) is that you now know what you dont know (or didnt! ), especially as regards dangers and risks. That means you are a hell of alot less likely to sail into danger out of ignorance. And that makes it all alot more fun.
 
Unless you are going abroad the ICC isnt much use.. you dont need it here in Blighty.

The PB1+2 is VERY basic.. start/stop, some ropework,bit of engine info,launch and recover,coming along side etc.

The ICC is indeed all about leaving British waters, but then that is the point for quite a few people so I think it does have a value to the average cruiser.

PB2 is not basic at all sorry, you can get a copy of the exact sylabus in G20 - Powerboat Logbook, but suffice to say it includes navigation and passage planning as well as sea safety.

Re the OP: Do not be put off the powerboat course if it is taught in an open boat, the range of topics is broad and relevant to all kinds of boating. You also have the option of own boat tuition.
 
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Unless you are going abroad the ICC isnt much use.. you dont need it here in Blighty. I believe it was established by the RYA as in the UK we dont having the legal requirement they have abroad for training.

This is a European directive, some countries have signed up to it some have not. It is not an RYA document, the RYA simply administer it.

"The ICC is a product of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe Inland Water Committee (UN ECE IWC) Resolution 40 (hereafter called Resolution 40). This states that the ICC may be issued by a government of one state to its nationals and residents who may be on the waters of a foreign state, on condition that both accept the requirements and conditions set out in Resolution 40. Governments may appoint competent authorities to issue ICC on their behalf; the RYA is such a competent authority.
1.2 The ICC provides documentary assurance from one government to another that the holder meets the levels of competence laid down in Resolution 40. "

The PB1+2 is VERY basic.. start/stop, some ropework,bit of engine info,launch and recover,coming along side etc. I guess if its one-to-one, your trainer might take you further along the learning curve, but in group training, there is obviously a fair amount of sitting about while others drive ;)Still, its quite fun, and enables you to get out on the water and have some clue what you are doing. I'd say its a great way to get started in a rib , as it were.

I suggest he does it on his own boat, not on a rib. I can tell you that we do more than a "basic" job on any level 2. Probably because when I did mine it was so basic as to be virtually useless but it was a long time ago. As I said in my earlier post the Helmsman's course is VERY basic.
 
Ok, corrected. I m sure you have more reason to be au fait with the EU Resolutions than me on this ;)
I was not suggesting that he does it on a rib, nor commenting on your own courses. However, I was illustrating that much of the course material would be very suitable to someone starting out on a small rib, and so he might be interested to read up alot more, and/or take additional training if he has ambitions beyond a spin round the bay.
You and I have done the very basic course and remember. He hasnt, and so cant know ;)
 
... if he has ambitions beyond a spin round the bay.

But the PB2 course content is much much wider than that. It covers navigation, passage planning, crewing and crew communication. It goes into detail about how to operate a boat at passage making speeds as well as pilotage, buoyage, tides and colregs.

It is not as detailed as Dayskipper or PB Intermediate, but it is a very rounded and comprehensive course with a relevance for outside the bay.

The other important thing about PB2 is because it leads into an ICC the candidate has to actually show an ability and an understanding of the topics, like the fundamental way the boat works and interacts with the elements.
 
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But the PB2 course content is much much wider than that. It covers navigation, passage planning, crewing and crew communication. It goes into detail about how to operate a boat at passage making speeds as well as pilotage, buoyage, tides and colregs.

It is not as detailed as Dayskipper or PB Intermediate, but it is a very rounded and comprehensive course with a relevance for outside the bay.

The other important thing about PB2 is because it leads into an ICC the candidate has to actually show an ability and an understanding of the topics, like the fundamental way the boat works and interacts with the elements.

Perhaps I am being unfair, as I had some experience of boats when I took it, so the add-on seemed very marginal. I did more recently look through the course, and perhaps it now seems very basic just to me. Still, I would advise anyone starting out to take the course, but in my opinion it is an introduction.
Of course it depends how big the bay is ;) , but I think it would be naive of a new boater to think this course prepared him for the sea. After all, if the course was really so informative, there wouldnt be much need for any others!
Re demonstrating the knowledge bcz of ICC.. hmm.. how many instructors find it beneficial to fail their students, I wonder?
 
I think it would be naive of a new boater to think this course prepared him for the sea.

how many instructors find it beneficial to fail their students, I wonder?

A commercially endorsed PB2 would allow the holder to take passengers up to 3 miles from his nominated departure point, so yes I think the course is relevant to short trips in open water.

It is not really a pass/fail course, but there is a requirement to show that you can handle the boat and make solid decisions.

The course leads on to the more advanced course, either via the powerboat or motorcruiser schemes. It is not an all encompassing syllabus, but it is much more detailed than you recall or perhaps experienced.

The long and the short is that it is far more suitable than Helmsman in the OP's situation.
 
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Perhaps I am being unfair, as I had some experience of boats when I took it, so the add-on seemed very marginal. I did more recently look through the course, and perhaps it now seems very basic just to me. Still, I would advise anyone starting out to take the course, but in my opinion it is an introduction.
That is exactly what it is, and there is no way that we pretend to turn everybody into expert boat handlers after it. It is there to teach technique and a variety of other skills.


Of course it depends how big the bay is ;) , but I think it would be naive of a new boater to think this course prepared him for the sea. After all, if the course was really so informative, there wouldnt be much need for any others!

When done properly it can prepare him for sea, and at least give a very good idea of what he might come up against. In two days, we can teach the basics - like anything else, you then have to go and put that into practice. As Gary Player said, the more I practice the luckier I get!


Re demonstrating the knowledge bcz of ICC.. hmm.. how many instructors find it beneficial to fail their students, I wonder?

The term failure is a bit harsh, however I can tell you that I have asked that people come back for an extra day if I don't feel that a candidate has grasped enough. Very often it's those that think they know it all that are this situation. I recently had a candidate who said he's been boating for years and really didn't want to do the whole course with others of less ability than he. OK, then we can do a Level 2 assessment, no teaching just demonstrate a variety of exercises and some theory knowledge. When I asked him what a cardinal mark was, he said I've never really got to grips with that buoyage stuff". OK, then lets go on the water................... Suffice to say that he did the full PB 2 course and admitted at the end how much he had learnt and enjoyed it. I have also had to refer a YM candidate as well - boat handling was very poor and on the retake, said that he would not have passed himself first time round!

Don't be fooled into dumbing down the PB2. As has been said, it is what he needs.
 
Thanks all for the input, I think I will go for the Powerboat 2 especially as it is going to be own boat, 1:1 tuition.

Day 1 is tomorrow and day 2 is on Monday when we are going to be combining the tuition with transferring the boat from Brighton where she is now to her new home at Saxon.

All in all, it's going to be a very exciting weekend for me!
 
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