RYA Day Skipper Course

AMCD300

AMCD300

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Does anyone know of a simple way to 'upgrade' an RYA Day Skipper (Non-Tidal) qualification to DS (Tidal) without having to retake the whole thing?

I was hoping that the RYA/sailing schools would offer an option whereby one could spend a day or two on the water to demonstrate competency in the stream, before signing you off as fully tidal qualified?

I suspect I already know the answer (RYA and training providers need the money afterall) but I was keen to know if I could avoid paying £600-or so in cash and another week of my time for what is, technically, only part of the DS course. There are not two different DS shore-based syllabi afterall...

Andy
 
Penguin,

Thanks for this - I missed the conversion courses in my research. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. And as you say, I would have to come to the UK to do the conversion.

I was interested to know the extent to which my Med-based training would impact me later on in my sailing life, and especially how much it would cost to convert in order to continue on to YM. I think spending 2 days in colder waters to complete top-up training is much better than a whole week for the DS Tidal. But then I am a little 'geographically biased' ;D

Thanks again for the swift reponse.

Andy
 
Hiya. Please do note that one of the pre yachtmaster offshore exam requirements is to have sailed 2500 miles. Half of this must be in tidal waters. RYA G15/10.

Get yer thermals out!
 
First of all ask yourself why you need to DS Tidal. DS (of any flavour) will only get you onto flotillas or basic charters if you don't own your own boat.

If you're going to progress to YM then I'd suggest just going straight to that (with the requisite number of miles in the bag) rather than getting an additional qualification with no real benefit. Most schools run a five day YM prep course before a two day exam - you will learn far more on that and also have the confidence to take the exam after that.

Also, remember, that DS is a successful course completion certificate (awarded by an instructor). YM is awarded by an independent examiner.

Whatever you choose - good luck and fair winds.
 
marklucas said:
First of all ask yourself why you need to DS Tidal. DS (of any flavour) will only get you onto flotillas or basic charters if you don't own your own boat.

If you're going to progress to YM then I'd suggest just going straight to that (with the requisite number of miles in the bag) rather than getting an additional qualification with no real benefit. Most schools run a five day YM prep course before a two day exam - you will learn far more on that and also have the confidence to take the exam after that.

Also, remember, that DS is a successful course completion certificate (awarded by an instructor). YM is awarded by an independent examiner.

Whatever you choose - good luck and fair winds.
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Mark,

that seems spot on to me; when I did my ym it was a few years after I did the night school bit, so I had a 'refresher week', then the course week and exam.

I found it all very enjoyable and informative, but I was with the excellent Solent School of Yachting which is sadly gone now; I believe Mike Dymond is involved with the RYA now, if he or Pete Misson are doing courses, grab a place !

It may be worth mentioning that the trainees on courses are usually expected to pay berthing fees and very likely the beer / meals for the instructor...

Also, a tip I found by pure luck & timing, if possible do such a course in the winter; you get the best instructors, and fellow pupils will be serious, not just out for a suntan !

One of the people on my course, a very good bloke, is now in command of a Type 45 Destroyer; he must look at my Anderson 22 wistfully...:rolleyes:
 
marklucas said:
First of all ask yourself why you need to DS Tidal. DS (of any flavour) will only get you onto flotillas or basic charters if you don't own your own boat.

If you're going to progress to YM then I'd suggest just going straight to that (with the requisite number of miles in the bag) rather than getting an additional qualification with no real benefit. Most schools run a five day YM prep course before a two day exam - you will learn far more on that and also have the confidence to take the exam after that.

Also, remember, that DS is a successful course completion certificate (awarded by an instructor). YM is awarded by an independent examiner.

Whatever you choose - good luck and fair winds.
Click to expand...

Mark,

Very good and sensible advice - thank you.

I am looking at progressing through the DS route purely out of practicality. I may be mis-guided in my approach but, as I do not currently own a yacht :( and I cannot get out on the water as much as I would like using other people's boats (i.e. every weekend), I will need to charter to make my miles up. As you rightly mention I cannot charter without first getting to DS but also without a tidal qualification I cannot charter in the UK should I want to, or indeed need to in order to satisy up the 50% tidal miles rule.

My wife and I want to buy a yacht in the next few years as part of our 'slow down and enjoy life' plan. As I will have 3 young children on board (currently 9, 8 and 5 yrs old) I want to be safe on the water first and foremost. I would rather learn through the more formal, albeit slower route than risk exposiong myself and my family to undue risk.

I want to get the family on the water as much as possible and as soon as possible so chartering is a good way to get some sailing done on my own terms. I may also be able to convinve my yacht-owning sailing chums to lend me their boats for the weekends at some point. Going out on other people's boats has, to date, been a good experience for me, but only as an individual. I want to get the family on the water also so we can all learn together. Crucially, and looking longer-term, unless SWMBO embraces the joys of sailing then our dream of owning a yacht and doing some long-distance blue water sailing may never get off the slipway.

Ideally I would, as you suggest, go on a few passages as crew and make up the miles to go straight for YM. Hopefully it won't take too long to reach the mileage required for YM the way I am approaching it and I will certainly look at doing the YM prep course first come the day. Unfortuately the realities of the work/life balance are currently swinging the wrong way with respect to time off as crew for extended passage making but it does, thankfully, mean that I have a little money left over to fund all those 'unnecessary' training courses along the way. Not the best plan perhaps, but a good compromise for me.

I truly appreciate the sincere advice - you don't get such a balanced view by just reading the sailing mags (or 'boat porn' as SWMBO calls it...) :D

Andy
 
marklucas said:
First of all ask yourself why you need to DS Tidal. DS (of any flavour) will only get you onto flotillas or basic charters if you don't own your own boat.

If you're going to progress to YM then I'd suggest just going straight to that (with the requisite number of miles in the bag) rather than getting an additional qualification with no real benefit. Most schools run a five day YM prep course before a two day exam - you will learn far more on that and also have the confidence to take the exam after that.

Also, remember, that DS is a successful course completion certificate (awarded by an instructor). YM is awarded by an independent examiner.

Whatever you choose - good luck and fair winds.
Click to expand...

+1.
 
AMCD300, you don't need DS (tidal or otherwise) to charter in the UK.

Certainly, I've never needed anything on Paper.


AMCD300 said:
Mark,
As you rightly mention I cannot charter without first getting to DS but also without a tidal qualification I cannot charter in the UK should I want to, or indeed need to in order to satisy up the 50% tidal miles rule.
Click to expand...
 
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Mark-1 said:
AMCD300, you don't need DS (tidal or otherwise) to charter in the UK.

Certainly, I've never needed anything on Paper.
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You are right that there is no absolute requirement for any qualification to charter, however, if I was running a charter company and you wanted to take £150k worth of my assets across the channel I would certainly be wanting to know the experience / qualifications of the skipper and first mate.

BTW I have been asked for copies of certificates from time to time in the UK, but as I mainly charter from one company (and used to skipper for them) not recently.

The craziest thing I've ever experienced was in the US (where else) when some colleagues and I had an afternoon free from a conference at a lake resort. I went to charter a yacht and had to take a Mickey Mouse multiple choice exam to "prove" to their insurance company that they had carried out due diligence in allowing us to take the yacht. Didn't matter if you couldn't park the boat - just pass the test.
 
Mark squared!

Mark, you are right about not requiring a DS qual to charter in the UK (I did a little research) but I agree with Mark that in lieu of this they require proof of competence through the log book :D

We come back to my previous concern about needing to get a DS to overcome a lack of sea miles, either as a means to go straight to YM or convince charters that one is not a charter liability...

I will make myself comfortable between this rock and that hard place for a little while longer. Sigh...
 
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AMCD300 said:
Mark, you are right about not requiring a DS qual to charter in the UK (I did a little research) but I agree with Mark that in lieu of this they require proof of competence through the log book :D

We come back to my previous concern about needing to get a DS to overcome a lack of sea miles, either as a means to go straight to YM or convince charters that one is not a charter liability...
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I've never been asked for a log book either, but you seem to be implying you lack experience which, frankly, might well be an impediment to chartering in the UK.

If you want to sail a yacht in the UK with limited experience have you considered the Norfolk Broads or the Caledonian Canal? As nice as most UK Coastal Sailing if you only have a week and no problem hiring a yacht with little sailing experience. If you didn't feel comfortable with a yacht you could hire a motorboat.

As Columbo says, "One more thing.". Why do you want to Charter in the UK? If you think it's too cold to do a week of training, it won't be any warmer on a week's charter. So why not do a few Flotillas in Greece where you won't need any experience or any qualifications? With a few Flots behind you you can point to experience which will allow you to charter.

Good luck with whatever you do.
 
marklucas said:
First of all ask yourself why you need to DS Tidal. DS (of any flavour) will only get you onto flotillas or basic charters if you don't own your own boat.

If you're going to progress to YM then I'd suggest just going straight to that (with the requisite number of miles in the bag) rather than getting an additional qualification with no real benefit. Most schools run a five day YM prep course before a two day exam - you will learn far more on that and also have the confidence to take the exam after that.

Also, remember, that DS is a successful course completion certificate (awarded by an instructor). YM is awarded by an independent examiner.

Whatever you choose - good luck and fair winds.
Click to expand...

BIG MINUS ONE not +1

If you just want scraps of RYA certificates - don't bother - you will rarely need them and can easily talk yourself out of any problems by boasting about your experience.

If you want to learn and get maximum knowledge in the minimum time the RYA has some well tuned courses.

Firstly the DS is more about boat handling and the basics of entering/leaving a port and safely managing a boat and crew on a day sail. The YM is about taking boats on journeys and passage planning but in doing the YM you will have to re-demonstrate your DS skills.

I choose to do tidal but to make it a holiday did it in Gibraltar (v sunny but hardly tidal). Bought first boat after one Flotilla Greek holiday,lots of Wayfarer racing and DS course. Maiden trip on new boat and found my first berthing at bucklers hard with a cross tide difficult but just managed it. Got back to mercury marina (R Hamble) to try and berth the boat down tide (about 3kts). Could not do it at all. One of the boat maintenance men from Hamble School of Yachting managed to jump on board and berthed the boat on his second attempt. He kindly admitted after that it was difficult - made me feel a bit better. Got him to take us out for pontoon bashing tuition later in the week with a couple of students as crew.

I felt like the guy that wins the lottery, buys a Farrari and has not got a driving licence! All the gear and no idea!!

Park up early at any tidal marina and you will be surprised at how many have difficulties in berthing in tidal water. I always try to get my crew to ferry glide across a current - you can learn a lot from that. Its not the rise and fall of the tide that a problem - its controlling the boat in the tidal flow (eg river marina).

Look up the almanac for Tregier in N Brittany. My friend boat and others was frequently damaged by skippers ignoring almanac advice of only berthing at slack water.

Skillful boat handlers are not lucky - they have been taught/practiced it more than the bad ones and that is DS not YM.

Good Luck but better to rely on skill.

Edit - one bonus of doing UK courses esp in winter is that you often end up leaning about heavy weather sailing with an instructor with the cr @p UK weather!!
 
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Sailfree said:
BIG MINUS ONE not +1

If you want to learn and get maximum knowledge in the minimum time the RYA has some well tuned courses.

Firstly the DS is more about boat handling and the basics of entering/leaving a port and safely managing a boat and crew on a day sail. The YM is about taking boats on journeys and passage planning but in doing the YM you will have to re-demonstrate your DS skills.

Skillful boat handlers are not lucky - they have been taught/practiced it more than the bad ones and that is DS not YM.
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Sailfree - some sagely advice.

My concern is exactly as you described - I want to be shown HOW to do something right first, by someone who knows what they are doing, in order to learn the best way from first principles. I want to reach my goals as soon as possible but don't want to take short cuts as they lead to long delays (spot the film reference) - this goes for any learning activity (I'm an engineer...sorry!). I don't dismiss people relying on and using their hard-learned experience but I currently lack sufficient knowledge with which to bluff my way through. :)

I take on board all the opinions and am thankful for everyone's input.

Andy
 
AMCD300 said:
My concern is exactly as you described - I want to be shown HOW to do something right first, by someone who knows what they are doing, in order to learn the best way from first principles. I want to reach my goals as soon as possible but don't want to take short cuts as they lead to long delays (spot the film reference) - this goes for any learning activity (I'm an engineer...sorry!). I don't dismiss people relying on and using their hard-learned experience but I currently lack sufficient knowledge with which to bluff my way through. :)
Click to expand...

From one engineer (I am very Civil!) to another - the training obviously makes us think alike
 
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