RYA Cruiseing Instructor - worth doing?

[[3889]]

Advice welcome on the virtues of this course.
First off, with a YM Offshore cert. am I right in thinking I need only the 1 day Basic Sea Survival Course and the PPR online course for commercial endorsement or do I need a current 1st aid?
Secondly, how easy is it to get work with sailing schools with this qualification? I'm happy to travel. Is there a glut of better qualified peeps? I'd like to teach maybe 5 - 7 courses per year with no illusions of becoming wealthy but I don't want to lay out 1k+ for no return; I have considered going it alone with a YM instructor cert. using my own boat but the capital investment seems to make this only viable for a full time business, which I don't want.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Advice welcome on the virtues of this course.
First off, with a YM Offshore cert. am I right in thinking I need only the 1 day Basic Sea Survival Course and the PPR online course for commercial endorsement or do I need a current 1st aid?
Secondly, how easy is it to get work with sailing schools with this qualification? I'm happy to travel. Is there a glut of better qualified peeps? I'd like to teach maybe 5 - 7 courses per year with no illusions of becoming wealthy but I don't want to lay out 1k+ for no return; I have considered going it alone with a YM instructor cert. using my own boat but the capital investment seems to make this only viable for a full time business, which I don't want.

Yes you need a current First Aid certificate to get Commercially Endorsed. There were about 400 CI's being certified each year prior to the more formal assessment being put into place, which may make a difference.

It depends where you plan to work, you wouldnt get anything in the SOlent area because yes there is a glut of people, and the schools tend to use the same people as much as possible - they ones they know and trust. So you would struggle to get 'in' for 5-7 courses per year.

Maybe in the NW, there are more opportunities? Expect to earn about £100/day and pay all your own travel expenses, plus food out.

After five years, you either have to go through the CI assessment again, or go up to YMI which may be difficult if you havent done much training.

HTH

 

[lpdsn]

Apparently, once you've got the YM offshore & commercial endorsement etc., it is up to the sea school to decide whether you're up to it or not. I decided not to do it because in the end I wasn't interested in commercial endorsement. Teaching is supposed to put you back on a steep learning curve, which is what made me think about it in the first place.

There is a public responsibilty (or something like that) course which is now compulsory on top of those you mention.

I'm not sure the standard is that high. I've been definitely unimpressed with the experience & skill level of some CI's I've met, although every YMI I've met has seemed pretty good. I'm not sure you can get YMI without a good bit of experience as a CI. The YMI exam apparently has a high failure rate, which I can't disagree with.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Apparently, once you've got the YM offshore & commercial endorsement etc., it is up to the sea school to decide whether you're up to it or not. I decided not to do it because in the end I wasn't interested in commercial endorsement. Teaching is supposed to put you back on a steep learning curve, which is what made me think about it in the first place.

There is a public responsibilty (or something like that) course which is now compulsory on top of those you mention.

I'm not sure the standard is that high. I've been definitely unimpressed with the experience & skill level of some CI's I've met, although every YMI I've met has seemed pretty good. I'm not sure you can get YMI without a good bit of experience as a CI. The YMI exam apparently has a high failure rate, which I can't disagree with.

Sorry lpdsn, that's out of date - the Sea School can no longer self certify their candidates. During 2013 the RYA (Craig Burton mainly) went through a very lenghthy process to put more effective assessment and certification into place.

The public responsibility (or something like that) course is the PPR Online course mentioned by the OP

 

[lpdsn]

Sorry lpdsn, that's out of date -

Happy to accept that. It's a couple of years since I looked in to it. Sounds like the RYA changes are a definite improvement as I formed the impression standards were pretty variable.

 

[[3889]]

Yes you need a current First Aid certificate to get Commercially Endorsed.

Thanks. The reason I asked about 1st aid is the RYA website states:
RYA First Aid Certificate or other acceptable first aid certificate (only required if applying for a commercial endorsement to a Day Skipper, Powerboat Level 2 or Advanced Powerboat Course Completion Certificate).
which seemed to imply submission of a current 1st aid cert is not required for endorsing a YM - not what I would have expected. Not that it's a major issue really.

There is a public responsibilty (or something like that) course which is now compulsory on top of those you mention.

Yes, that's the online PPR course. I'm really looking at the idea more for pleasure than business; I have had quite a lot of involvement in skills training in the past which I enjoyed and it would be good to link this to sailing - if the opportunities are there.
I suppose I should contact various schools directly and see what they say.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

As I said, if you are doing it for pleasure rather than business, you will need to decide what to do at the end of the 5 year period - give up, requalify or go up to YMI.

EDIT: And this page advises that all RYA Instructors must have first aid .....http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/resources/Pages/Firstaidandmedical.aspx

 

[laika]

Thanks. The reason I asked about 1st aid is the RYA website states:
RYA First Aid Certificate or other acceptable first aid certificate (only required if applying for a commercial endorsement to a Day Skipper, Powerboat Level 2 or Advanced Powerboat Course Completion Certificate).
which seemed to imply submission of a current 1st aid cert is not required for endorsing a YM - not what I would have expected.

That's because the SRC certificate and a valid first aid certificate are both required for YM (with or without a commercial endorsement):
http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Yachtmasteroffshore.aspx

 

[Uricanejack]

It's a question I was pondering myself. I have more to do holding no RYA certification.

I used to be cruising instructor for different organization. And have its certification to an advanced level. I will probably renew my certification as a CYA instructor soon.
I was considering getting RYA which is beginning to become known here. Just to offer it as an additional option.
Also it might apeal to visitors.

Trying to find a school to challenge the YM before the course would be ideal. I did contact one which wanted me to do weeks of course at high price.
RYA it self said my certificate were acceptable.
I think it probably is worth it. Many schools do garentee some work if you certified with them.

 

[[3889]]

That's because the SRC certificate and a valid first aid certificate are both required for YM (with or without a commercial endorsement):
http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Yachtmasteroffshore.aspx

Yes, but my 1st aid has now lapsed and I'm a bit surprised that I don't seem to have to renew for a CE.

 

[capnsensible]

You will need to have an in date first aid certificate and an in date personal seafarers medical ENG1 or ML5.

Coming soon, the Maritime Labour Convention, be prepared to need a food hygiene certificate if the vessel leaves UK eg cross channel......

Oh, and as mentioned, have completed the Professional Practices and Responsibilities course on line.

 

[[3889]]

Trying to find a school to challenge the YM before the course would be ideal. I did contact one which wanted me to do weeks of course at high price.

I did my YM on my own boat after doing just the shore based course. The RYA supplied an examiner who assessed me on a 1:1 basis. Cost me just over £100 (now £205) and the instructor had to travel 150 miles - not one of his most lucrative days, I suspect, though I couldn't fault his knowledge and enthusiasm. Application process is the same as through a school, using this form.
http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectio...Exams/TRA Practical exam application form.pdf

 

[RobbieW]

... There were about 400 CI's being certified each year prior to the more formal assessment being put into place, which may make a difference.

It depends where you plan to work, you wouldnt get anything in the SOlent area because yes there is a glut of people, and the schools tend to use the same people as much as possible - they ones they know and trust. So you would struggle to get 'in' for 5-7 courses per year.
...

I'm very glad to hear the RYA have formalised the CI training and assessment, I think the previous arrangement was one of the remaining weak links in the system. Whilst I understand schools reluctance to use new faces, having a formal baseline should start to make the quality of instructor more consistent which should lead to easier job opportunities for those with the new qual. When, some 7-8 years ago, I looked into CI the response I got from schools at SIBS was 'if you do our course we might employ you' which told me it was not a level playing field and I didnt go down that road.

...
Coming soon, the Maritime Labour Convention, be prepared to need a food hygiene certificate if the vessel leaves UK eg cross channel......
...

Lordy, lordy - glad I've gone cruising instead

 

[capnsensible]

Lordy, lordy - glad I've gone cruising instead

Mind you, I did an online one, moderately interesting, for about eleven quid.

 

[Old IC]

Yes it is worth doing and essential (as you probably know) if you want to instruct yacht cruising up to Day Skipper within the RYA Scheme. A straight commercial endorsement would allow work on charter/corporate boats. Commercial endorsement is easy, sea survival, personal medical plus the newish personal responsibilities course. The first aid required for YM will do if in date. I found the online personal responsibilities very straight forward taking about two or maybe three hours in total including the simple exam.
I doubt many people make much money either running an RYA Cruising School or teaching afloat. I worked full time for more than twelve years both afloat and in the classroom. (a lot longer than many as there is a high burn out rate) Earnings are poor, most people are either young before family/mortgage etc or older with other income like me.
The main problem (I'm griping here!) is that, like sex, there are too many people willing to give it away for the pleasure or experience. Wages rarely reach decent levels. Some (well known) sailing schools choose their instructors by how little pay they ask for. There is always a supply of instructors willing to work on the cheap to gain experience.
To be fair to Sailing Schools course fees are low and expenses high. Somehow people expect a weeks residential course with very expensive equipment (100 grand yacht) for about 500 hundred quid. Business and educational courses can be that much for a day in a hotel meeting room.
Old IC. Yachtmaster Instructor

 

[Talulah]

I think that pretty well somes it up.
When I first qualified as a Cruising Instructor I visited a few schools in the Solent. Pleasent smiles exchanged etc.
But the first course I taught was as a result of a telephone call. I was just the first one on the list given by the RYA who was available to teach a course due to cancellation by a sick instructor.

 

[flaming]

I did CI twice.

First time was frankly a joke. The instructor was in his 70s and would tell the 4 of us to sail somewhere, and whilst we did he would go below and sleep. Then he'd pop up and yell at us, normally about sail trim. Now, as you may recall I do a lot of racing, and what he was saying about sail trim was completely wrong. Then he asked me to do a bit of nav, and let's just say at that point I lost all faith in his ability to skipper a yacht. His proposed plan would have put us on Calshot spit, and he got angry when I pointed this out.

The main point he kept drumming into us all weekend was not to sleep with the clients. Literally every 5 minutes he'd repeat this mantra.

So at the end of all that 4 new CIs, who hadn't been told anything about how to teach the subject, and who's training course was basically some incoherent shouting and abstinence advice, in between nap times. I taught a couple of courses but never really felt comfortable about it, and learnt a lot of the things like how to structure a week, what constitutes a pass at DS by talking to other more experienced instructors.

So when I then found myself about 18 months later needing to earn a crust from instructing I was technically qualified, but knew I wasn't up to much. So I spoke to the new school principal and I went out again on a CI course with her. Night and day. This was a really good weekend's sailing where I learnt a lot, especially about how to actually teach and how to structure a week etc. Really useful stuff for anyone actually doing the job basically!

So I would fully support the move to make the CI qualification more formal. And would add that instructing is extremely hard work, but immensely enjoyable when you get great clients who really want to be there and to learn.

 

[Old IC]

Reading what I wrote I maybe sound a bit cynical, sorry.
What newly qualified instructors bring is enthusiasm and new ideas which is good for the students.
Anyone thinking of instructing such give it a try. The infectious enthusiasm from a group of people joining a course on a Sunday evening for five days sailing (nearly) always gives me a big bang of satisfaction. It hardly ever seems like work.
I've sailed over 15,000 miles in the Solent alone, mostly with students, and I still love being out there.
Even when I walk my dogs and watch a sailing school boat pound out of Portsmouth Harbour against a F6 I still feel the excitement.
GO FOR IT.

 

[RobbieW]

Out of curiosity, anyone got a link to a copy of the revised CI training syllabus or assessment criteria - all the stuff on the RYA website appears to refer to the system in place up to 2013 ... Thanks