Rudder Seal

[trowell]

Can anyone offer any advice on what might have failed re: Verity's rudder.

She is an Elizabethan 30 and has been taking on water that seems to be coming from the rudder tube. The following pictures will help in showing the design.

When two people stand at the back of the cockpit their weight provides enough downward pressure to force water up the tube and spill out around the tiller attachment peg (1st picture)(With this in mind one can appreciate that there is little distance between peg and water line). When I sail alone I do not observe this, but water is still coming in steadily. The slowest rate of ingress occurs when I am not on the boat.

I have poured water from a kettle down around the tiller peg and can see some trickling down the outside of the tube (see picture no.2) it can also be seen coming out from around the shaft exit point (pictures 3 and 4).

Many thanks in anticipation

 

[Tranona]

Doubt there is any positive form of seal in the tube, probably just solid bearings (something like Delrin) which have worn . The tube is supposed to be filled with water as the bearings will be water lubricated. Not surprising water comes through with the top of essentially an open tube so close to the waterline.

 

[pvb]

I'd agree there's unlikely to be a seal in the tube.

Have you done anything to change the trim of the boat? Any added weight at the stern? Extra batteries; new engine; etc?

 

[lw395]

No reason why there couldn't be some sort of rubber seal in there.
Its failure might well have been caused by the wear in the bearings.

I suspect you need to take it apart this winter.

But I'm a bit confused whether the top of the tube should be above waterline any way, so why does it leak while the boat is unloaded and not moving?
It makes me suspect the tube itself needs a good coat of looking at!

 

[trowell]

I'd agree there's unlikely to be a seal in the tube.

Have you done anything to change the trim of the boat? Any added weight at the stern? Extra batteries; new engine; etc?

Verity has indeed been re-engined with new higher capacity batteries located above the (fin) keel.There is also wind vane self steering gear. However, non of these items appear to have dramatically increased the displacement as indicated by the water line and water level

 

[sailorman]

Can anyone offer any advice on what might have failed re: Verity's rudder.

She is an Elizabethan 30 and has been taking on water that seems to be coming from the rudder tube. The following pictures will help in showing the design.

When two people stand at the back of the cockpit their weight provides enough downward pressure to force water up the tube and spill out around the tiller attachment peg (1st picture)(With this in mind one can appreciate that there is little distance between peg and water line). When I sail alone I do not observe this, but water is still coming in steadily. The slowest rate of ingress occurs when I am not on the boat.

I have poured water from a kettle down around the tiller peg and can see some trickling down the outside of the tube (see picture no.2) it can also be seen coming out from around the shaft exit point (pictures 3 and 4).

Many thanks in anticipation

we have a stern gear type stuffing box in the lazerette to seal the shaft

 

[NormanS]

we have a stern gear type stuffing box in the lazerette to seal the shaft

+1.

 

[ianat182]

From the photographs there appear to be at least 2securing nuts and bolts to the bottom of the rudder tube inside the hull( mine has 4). These secure the outer plate and a sealing rubber gasket (or sealant) above the rudder on the outside of the hull clamping the lower inner flange of the rudder tube, to prevent ingress of water to the hull.
The top of the rudder tube also should have securing nuts and a flange which contains or locates the the upper bearing( on my boat the upper flange is well above the waterline). A few years ago the lower flange bolts worked loose enough to cause the lower outside plate to break the seal/gasket there and we took on water very quickly; this was after a particularly rough F8 trip under sail and we were very lucky to be able to pump out enough to get her ashore on the hard at Warsash.
The repair and resealing was rather awkward and I ended up cutting an access hatch in the cockpit floor to gain access to the lower bolts and nuts. The replacement nuts were locking nuts with the nuts being accessed from the outside rather than as installed to enable an easier periodic check and tightening if ever needed.


Does this help?

ianat182

 

[charles_reed]

I fear a classic case of raising the waterline above the rudder tube.

There is unlikely to be a water-seal there, though there will be bearings top and bottom.

Suggestions:_

1. Try and move weight forward to bring the stern up.
2. Glass on an aft sponson of closed-cell foam to increase aft buoyancy.
Both of these need to be fairly carefully calculated to allow for the increase in engine weight and betteries.
3. Try to fabricate an O-ring seal above the top shaft bearing - if room a possible mitigation but not a cure.
4. Have rudder out - extend the shaft and the enclosing tube by (I guess 75mm).

 

[MoodySabre]

I don't know why peeps think that there wouldn't be a seal inside the rudder bearing.My boat has O rings set into the Delrin bearing and that is all that stops the intake of water from the rudder. I know this cos it leaked and this year I had to take the rudder off to replace the O rings and there is now no leak. Stupid arrangement IMO as this was a major job lifting the boat and removing the sked and riveting it back on afterwards all for 60p in O rings.

I don't know about Elizabethans but there is clearly a removable plate and this must be removable for a purpose. I'd drop the rudder and remove the plate to investigate.

 

[gcev]

rudder seal

Good morning,
Greetings to all
I am Italian and I live in Spain, and I have bought in Spain an Elizabethan 30
and I also I have the same problem you had your, we dockage the boat, we've cleaned including the shaft of rudder, traced and put into the water and then sailing, we've seen water coming in the tub from the top of the rudder hole and bilge water entered through a rudder hole had more or less in the middle of its length. Now we have dockage the boat again, we have removed everything and it turns out that within the rudder hole there are only 2 bearing bushing and no gasket.
Does your as you solved the problem? I try to solve the problem and redo the rudder hole and new bearing bushing in the cap below we are going to put a gasket Viton.
I attached some photos
I am sorry for my terrible English (google traductor).
regards
Gabriele