Rudder play

[pathfinderstu]

Hi ..opinions requested again from you fine group of gentlemen.
have done a search and cant seem to find a direct answer to this question. My 2006 ben43 is ashore at the moment for antifouling etc, I noticed I can rattle the rudder from the bottom of it. around 1/4 inch play. rattled a few neighbours rudders around to see if it was normal and they all had some movement but not as bad as mine. is there anything I can tighten it up or is it a rudder off type of thing? Thanks.

 

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

Not enough data -- is the rudder transom-hung and the gudgeons (or pintles) worn? is it through the counter, and the rudder-tube sloppy? is the helm tiller- or wheel-operated and the chains slack? etc etc.

Tell us more about your boat -- I for one have no idea what is a "2006 ben43" -- and we might be able to offer more useful suggestions. Photos could also be useful....

Mike

 

[pathfinderstu]

Not enough data -- is the rudder transom-hung and the gudgeons (or pintles) worn? is it through the counter, and the rudder-tube sloppy? is the helm tiller- or wheel-operated and the chains slack? etc etc.

Tell us more about your boat -- I for one have no idea what is a "2006 ben43" -- and we might be able to offer more useful suggestions. Photos could also be useful....

Mike

Hi mike thanks for that I noticed in forums that Beneteaus were referred to as B so that's why I went one step further and enlarged it to ben. 43.. sorry for the confusion.

 

[wiggy]

I would drop the rudder and check the bottom bearings. There is a thread running on the PBO forum.

 

[charles_reed]

Not enough data -- is the rudder transom-hung and the gudgeons (or pintles) worn? is it through the counter, and the rudder-tube sloppy? is the helm tiller- or wheel-operated and the chains slack? etc etc.

Tell us more about your boat -- I for one have no idea what is a "2006 ben43" -- and we might be able to offer more useful suggestions. Photos could also be useful....

Mike

Beneteau Cyclades 43 - popular charter boat, designed by Berret-Racoupeau, spade rudder (so no pintles, gudgeon-pins).
Probably the lower (nylon) bearing worn - but that small amount of play doesn't justify the major operation and cost of changing it. Other (even less desirable) possibilities, internal movement of the tangs in the rudder blade or fatigue-failure of the rudder-tube (the model has had some reports of that failure mode).
I'd suggest either getting a competent surveyor to look at it, or averting one's eyes and crossing ones fingers ignore the situation.

 

[pathfinderstu]

Beneteau Cyclades 43 - popular charter boat, designed by Berret-Racoupeau, spade rudder (so no pintles, gudgeon-pins).
Probably the lower (nylon) bearing worn - but that small amount of play doesn't justify the major operation and cost of changing it. Other (even less desirable) possibilities, internal movement of the tangs in the rudder blade or fatigue-failure of the rudder-tube (the model has had some reports of that failure mode).
I'd suggest either getting a competent surveyor to look at it, or averting one's eyes and crossing ones fingers ignore the situation.

Thank you sir. just the kind of answer I was hoping for.
as time is running out and I wont intentionally be doing any hard sailing this season. I think I will turn a blind eye and wait till the next lay up.

 

[pathfinderstu]

I would drop the rudder and check the bottom bearings. There is a thread running on the PBO forum.

many thanks for that. will have a look later. cant seem to open the link at the moment.:encouragement:

 

[jimi]

I'd lock the wheel hard and see if there is any side movement in the rudder itself , if so there might be an issue with the tangs ( I had exactly that issue with a Bennie 331 a few years ago and ended up replacing the rudder), if solid there then probably just a worn bearing in the stern tube and nothing to worry about.

 

[pathfinderstu]

Will do...thanks.:encouragement:

 

[Norman_E]

My Jeanneau 45.2 has had about a 10mm sideways movement possible at the bottom of the rudder ever since I have had the boat. In fact that only equates to about 1mm play in the lower bearing and is nothing to worry about. Next winter I will drop the rudder to remove and examine the upper bearing support, which is painted mild steel and prone to rusting, though it is very substantial and the rust may or may not be serious. At that time I will see whether it is time to replace the bottom bearing.

 

[Blueboatman]

One excuse to drop the rudder is when the clunk clunk keeps you awake in the (aft) cabins

 

[vyv_cox]

When I bought my Sadler there was a small amount of play in the top bearing. The surveyor suggested I keep an eye on it. That was in 1995 and it's still almost exactly the same. It's probably the case that the lower bearing on a spade rudder shaft wears rather more rapidly but almost certainly not at a rate that it will fail suddenly.

 

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

Thanks for the answers, guys. I'm glad to have been able to contribute....

Mike

 

[nigelmercier]

Hi mike thanks for that I noticed in forums that Beneteaus were referred to as B ...

Only on Beneteau forums. Similarly with Bavaria.

 

[RadiumRob]

The prospect of tangs failing strikes terror into one's heart. For this reason, and following a surveyor's advice, I dropped the slightly weeping rudder or my 1984 Beneteau First 325 this year to investigate their condition.

After stripping off the a/f, I used a Feyn saw to cut out few large inspection coupons. I found a layer of closed-cell foam in good condition, and beneath this a very robust epoxy structure enclosing a single tang that followed the rudder's profile down its length (see attached pic). At this point I eliminated failure of a tang as a likely event, and had the coupons replaced and the rudder re-sheathed by a laminator, repairing a couple of cracks that were the source of water ingress.

I mention this because it wasn't particularly difficult or expensive to do, and was quite re-assuring. It may be something that you would consider at some point if you do have concerns over the internal structure.

 

[concentrik]

Although others have said that they encountered no problems with play in the lower bushing, we did.

We set off with a little play in ours, did about 500nm before it failed badly. The play affected the free movement of the quadrant, hence the steering. We had to lift the boat and drop the skeg mounted support. The Delrin (?) bearing had disintegrated and needed replacing.

Pics here:

http://alibicrew.travellerspoint.com/64/