Route Question

[SimP]

Hello

I hope its ok to pick your brains.

I have been sportsboating for a number of years, in sea and lake and will be looking to change to a modest 28 foot or so cruiser for sea use.

I have many questions but weirdly perhaps the first thing that crosses my mind is that when driving a car you can tell exactly where you need to be on the road to be safe and go where you wish to go. In a boat you may know where you wish to go but how do you plan a route that avoids possible problems, I mean things like shallow water, sand banks, rocks etc that may be just under the surface? especially without local knowledge or asking people.

It was the post about Poole to Cowes which brough this to mind. Do you have to buy charts and then from those- that hopefully show sandbanks problems etc. plot a suitable course on your gps or does all the gps equipment have stationary problems programmed into them. I wouldnt have thought about sandbanks etc from Poole to Cowes I would have imagined you would just sort of point and go when talking about coastal use.

do you need paper charts that show channel bouys and plot via these? or do the gps systems have the 'safe' route options in them as standard.

Cheers

Simon

 

[Jim_H]

A GPS only tells you where you are (latitude and longitude), a chart shows the features and hazards, a GPS/Plotter combined does both but it is still up to you to interpret the information given. As far as I am aware the is no marine equivalent of "AUTOROUTE" which given start and end points will tell you which way to go.

I would suggest (very stongly) that you enroll on the RYA dayskipper course at your local tech college (or whatever they call it these days) which will give you the basics of chartwork, tides, and general boating do's and dont's.

A chart is like an encylopeadia ... it's all on there but it's up to you to find it and use it.

Best of luck ... it's great when you get it right, embarassing (and usually highly visible) when you get it wrong

<hr width=100% size=1>It was a quick 6 month project ...... in 1998

 

[tcm]

agree with others that a theory course would be a good idea.

to answer questions arising

1, Yes, it is just point and go, and no, there aren't any specific routes already made up which are "safe" - you do need charts to set a course first of all - avoiding the dangers of things just under the water.

2. In plotting a course, you shd try and make it as easy peasy as possible. This means frexample that instead of going on shortcuts between dangers, go to the outside (seaward) side if at all possible and so on, such that your course doesn't weave all over the place, andthat you could explain the salient parts of the next five minutes to anyone (who might need to take over) in seconds - "see the harbour ahead - keep to the left of it" frexample. Going on the outsdie means that you can employ easy rules like "if in doubt, turn out to sea" tho of course this can't work in narrow channels.

3. Note also that there will indeed be other boats and you need to give way. You give way by turning to starboard. You give way to any boat approaching within the zone 12oc'clock to five oclock by turning (very distinctly) to your right. Now, this means especially when going clockwise around headlands (eg as from solent to poole) you can run out of sea to turn right into cos otherwise yerd be on the beach, so it's best to get out into some reasonable open water - aka "giving yourself some searoom" so you aren't ever boxed in.

4. You have correctly identified that it's the hard things like rocks etc that cause most grief for small boats. If you plot a course assuming you want 10m under the keel as often as possible, you'll have thinking time if that figure ever gets smaller - whereas you won't if you are often skimming throughh areas with 5 metres frexample. 10 m also keeps you well offshore from beaches, swimmers and so on - but if it doesn't, half a mile is usually out of danger.

5. Finally in terms of nearness to other boats, a reasonable target is to keep 100m from other boats. This might need a fair bit of weaving in the solent, but it's quite fun in a powerboat. If at all possible, avoid holding a course such that a sailing or slower boat is on the nose for a while, with you turning at the last minute: this is a bit like trying out a gun by pointing at someone's head, then turning it away at the last minute and firing - frightening, alalarming and somewhat annoying to the "target".



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[hlb]

Whatever you do. Dont go near the sea till you can answer these questions and many many more, yourself. Go on a course. (Never thought I'd ever say that!!)

<hr width=100% size=1> Flags Solly MFBR</font color=red>
Haydn

 

[longjohnsilver]

So wot course do you recommend, flower arrangement, cookery for beginners, advanced dog training?

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[MainlySteam]

<<<advanced dog training>>>

Sounds the one to me, as long as it is for seeing eye dogs that can read a marine chart.

John

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[tcm]

Re: erm er

just realised, the question may mean that he doesn't know about buoyage!

yep, go on a course, simP. They'll teach you how to read a chart, and there are buoys out in the sea that give some (but not total) guidance as to which route is safe.

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[hlb]

Yep. I think flower arangement might be the safe option in this case.../forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> Flags Solly MFBR</font color=red>
Haydn

 

[SimP]

Hi guys

thanks for the responses.

in todays high tech world it seems then nobody has linked the info of a chart and tide tables into a computer plotter that is able to cross reference that inputted info, including permanent risks such as sandbanks underlying rocks and thus giving a final verdict on the chosen route by the skipper at a certain time and time of year as to whether there are likely risks!? It would be childs play and well within the reach of even a basic home computer

I imagine some of the fun is doing the charts but if you want to climb on a set a route to where you want to go and blast off it all seems unneccesarily complicated and may explain why so mnay bigger boats pull off their moorings hover about near to the shore and go home again - anything else seems aright rigmarole!

I do have experience of boating and handling boats and know the safety proceedures and collision avoidance etc etc its this navigation point that is new to me.

Si



<hr width=100% size=1>is this the place where you can write something witty and eye catching? good!..erm......

 

[MainlySteam]

<<<in todays high tech world it seems then nobody has linked the info of a chart and tide tables into a computer plotter... ...as to whether there are likely risks>>>

Errr. My electronic chart system does, as do many others I suspect - for both planned routes and for the course ahead actually being sailed. In the case of the latter, a loud lady's voice even tells me that there will be insufficient depth, insufficient air draft under a bridge or cable, etc, etc if one is heading towards a potential disaster.

You are correct in your claim to the extent that it does run on a home computer.

John

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[hlb]

Still think you need to learn much more about the sea before you ask more questions. Elecrtonic aids are widly available. But they cant help without knowledge and experience.

<hr width=100% size=1> Flags Solly MFBR</font color=red>
Haydn

 

[tcm]

hi simon -

It's not a daft question, and you're right, it could be a feature of a plotter to dial in a destination and the puter set a route.

Three main probs with this

first is the risk that yerd get a load of people all following exaccerly the same course, hence possible crunching. Even without autorouting, this happens already, with people entering actual co-ordinates of large buoys and whamming into them.

second is that a course wd vary a lot according to conditions. Frexample, crosschannel with wind rising from the west, i would head into the wind for the first part of the trip, giving the angle to go with the wind later in bumpier conditions. The puter wouldn't allow for that and nor wd it allow for inevitable other boats along the way, hence a bit pointless having the feature.

Third, if the puter starts suggesting routes, i wd imagine that they wd be on dodgy ground if the software oops gottit wrong.

The most useful aspect of a plotter is that it "holds the wheel" - but at speed you need to keep a constant watch ahead. It's of far less importance that the puter turns the wheel at each waypoint, although it can - you'd be there to adjust the course anyway.

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[Oldhand]

<I do have experience of boating and handling boats and know the safety proceedures and collision avoidance etc etc its this navigation point that is new to me.>

Navigation is a major part of handling a boat safely, your above sentence does not seem to recognise this and thus those who recommend you get some formal training are perfectly correct IHMO.

Furthermore, you seem to be trying to run before you can walk, hoping that a computer can do all the work for you. Yes, excellent chart-plotting and navigation software exists but you should ulimatlety decide on and take responsibility for the route that is taken yourself. Plotting/navigation software is not subjected to the the rigourous level of checking such as that used in aircraft systems and even the latter still have bugs. You should have basic manual navigation skills to be able to confirm what a PC might be telling you. Furthermore, navigation hazards do not always remain a constant, how does your PC know of a new wreck to avoid? You need to know basic chart work, including finding and using notices to mariners.


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[SimP]

Ok thats great so why did I get the sarcastic answers when i frist asked the question about that type of thing, if its already done?
many thanks for clearing that up for me

Si.

<hr width=100% size=1>is this the place where you can write something witty and eye catching? good!..erm......

 

[SimP]

Hi

I appreciate exactly what you are saying and I never once said that I was soley going to try and base any route decision or even step on the boat without further information to hand through training? why did you jump to the conclusion that i would?

Si

<hr width=100% size=1>is this the place where you can write something witty and eye catching? good!..erm......

 

[SimP]

Hi

and thanks for your nice response ( makea change from sarcasm)

I wasnt suggesting that a route would be set and blindly followed coomon sense and gained experience would be needed to allow for correct passage making my point was that an indicator as to the chosen route from the outset by computer would atleast be a starting point from which to then alter should conditions apply.

I wouldnt suggest it neccesarily suggesting routes, like i said in my second post the skipper would place the route into the plotter and then the computer would throw up any known risks it would then be up to the skipper to decide if the risks are acceptible and re route or stay as is.

I was purely talking about a way of quickly plotting a route and seeing immediatly should that route have any risks involved, the decisions based on that, just seemed to make sense to me but by one of the posts it seems this is already done which does then make me wonder why the sarcastic answers from the outset!

again many thanks for you constructive response.


Si

<hr width=100% size=1>is this the place where you can write something witty and eye catching? good!..erm......

 

[MainlySteam]

<<<so why did I get the sarcastic answers >>>

Probably because whatever electronic aids you use to plan or manage a course you still need to be able to read a chart whether it be on paper or on a screen. Your posts seem to indicate that you do not have that ability nor the understanding that ability is necessary, and so some have wisely indicated that you should take a course (or read a good book, perhaps if you are a capable self learner) that teaches you that.

John

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[mjf]

Quite apart from the others have said - its rather important to know how to find your position and to have the abilty to plot it on a chart. electronics are aids to navigation only.

This is not to give rescue services a Lat/Long but so that if you get into any difficultly ie unsure of where you are or you think you are running into danger etc. At least you can stop /slow down or whatever and assess the options properly.

From your initial post I thought your question was a bit like a chap buying a plane and expecting 'take off' ,'proceed to' and 'land me' buttons.




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[SimP]

Hi
I understand that your interpretation of what i said but |I wasnt suggesting that you soley rely on the computer but use it as an initial place to start as surely using charts is? you wouldnt blindly follow a chart as I wouldnt blindly follow a computer, im talking making things easier to use

ref second part I think i have answered that in the above post the computer software would be used intially to set a route then any final decision would be that of the skipper based on other factors, my point was really to have something to cross reference tides, obstacles etc easily and quickly then move forward from there.

you are presuming surely that the charts would have the newest information available and I would be expecting the computer to tell me everything and purely rely on it, why have people presumed this? i have a gps in my car but i dont close my eyes and just do what the voice says! but it would give an initial idea/opinion to the route chosen then decisions made from there, not to totally rely upon,much the same way as if you use a chart and then out from the fog a wreck appears do you ignore it as it wasnt on the chart? of course not and I wouldnt ignore it based on the plotter info.

again many thanks for your response much appreciated.

Si

<hr width=100% size=1>is this the place where you can write something witty and eye catching? good!..erm......

 

[SimP]

well dont presume you know nothing about me! It would have been nice to have my questions answered rather than people trying to read 'back story' and try to sum up my knowledge, abilities and intelligence based on a few lines of forum post and at the same time trying to be funny with lame sarcastic comments!

once any of you get an IQ above 149 then you can start calling me stupid!

si

<hr width=100% size=1>is this the place where you can write something witty and eye catching? good!..erm......