Rope jammers clutches

[peterhull]

I have sailed and owned larger yachts in the past but in retirement I have bought my self a Dufour T6, a trailer sailer which floats in 300mm when the keel is up.

I am updating some of the equipment. I have one Lewmar 6 alloy winch on the starboard coachroof behind 3 simple plastic rope jammers , the sort where you force the lines into the top.

I have 3 jammers on each port and starboard side with no winch on the port side.

Some of the jammers are worn now and one does not jam properly probably because the line is too small in diameter for the jammer.

I have seen advertised on various sites the Spinlock SUA mini jammer and they come in single double and triple versions and they will handle lines from 6mm to 10mm but they are intended for use with smaller winches.

The triple version is nearly £70 new. I tempted to buy two, one for each side of the coach roof at a toatl cost of about £140. This seems quite lot to pay so before I do has anyone had any experience of this sort of jammer good or bad!!

Or has anyone any better suggestions at modest cost.

I would be interested to hear of any feedback please.

Peter

 

[Fantasie 19]

I have sailed and owned larger yachts in the past but in retirement I have bought my self a Dufour T6, a trailer sailer which floats in 300mm when the keel is up.

I am updating some of the equipment. I have one Lewmar 6 alloy winch on the starboard coachroof behind 3 simple plastic rope jammers , the sort where you force the lines into the top.

I have 3 jammers on each port and starboard side with no winch on the port side.

Some of the jammers are worn now and one does not jam properly probably because the line is too small in diameter for the jammer.

I have seen advertised on various sites the Spinlock SUA mini jammer and they come in single double and triple versions and they will handle lines from 6mm to 10mm but they are intended for use with smaller winches.

The triple version is nearly £70 new. I tempted to buy two, one for each side of the coach roof at a toatl cost of about £140. This seems quite lot to pay so before I do has anyone had any experience of this sort of jammer good or bad!!

Or has anyone any better suggestions at modest cost.

I would be interested to hear of any feedback please.

Peter

I can only say that I am proposing to do the same on my boat, and like you was put off by the cost of clutches/jammers - my approach is going to be cam cleats, mounted side by side... much cheaper and in small rope sizes (mine is 6mm) just as effective...

 

[charles_reed]

Always used these for lines <8mm - carry spares as they have a very definitely limited life.

http://www.clamcleat.com/

 

[peterhull]

hmmmm thanks for feedback, I am going off the idea of spending lots of cash on this.

I am looking for a more simple cheaper way of sailing thanks

Peter

 

[William_H]

I have a 2ft trailer sailer and fitted many years ago extra halyard winches. It had one each side and now has 2 each side.
https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=93088&search123=93088&intAbsolutePage=1
NB one oz dollar is UK55pence
This is an example of cheap winch which is cheaper than a clutch. No question of halyards slipping as they go to a horn cleat after the winch. I use a winch for jib halyard another for main halyard and the other 2 get used for whatever. ie mainsail outhaul,cunningham vang or when reefed one for tack and one for clew.
good luck olewill

 

[charles_reed]

hmmmm thanks for feedback, I am going off the idea of spending lots of cash on this.

I am looking for a more simple cheaper way of sailing thanks

Peter

Between £2 - £12 each? Are you really convinced of their unaffordability?

 

[peterhull]

I think you misunderstood me Charles , I maybe did not use enough words but basically I was agreeing with.

Peter

 

[peterhull]

Ok William very interesting thanks, your winches look similar size to Lewmar 6. I am buying another L6 yes for the S/B side

peter

 

[PetiteFleur]

Always used these for lines <8mm - carry spares as they have a very definitely limited life.

http://www.clamcleat.com/

My experience with Clamcleats is thet the plastic ones don't last long = get the Aluminium ones if you can and also put them on an angled piece of wood so that the rear is higher than the front so the line falls easily into the vee.
PM me - I have a couple in my shed which may be of use to you - from memory they are for ropes up to 10/12mm diameter, you could have them for the cost of postage.

 

[tolhurstorganic]

I fitted double Spinlock jammers to each side of the boom of my Gaff Ketch to handle reef lines and clew outhaul via single small winch on boom
I have not found them up to the job, they slip even when thumping the handle down hard. Lines are wearing quite quickly at the grip point too. They do not take anything like the 400kg load as they are supposed to with 10mm braided lines. I doubt if they hold as much as 200kg before slipping, have to put half hitch in over them to ensure they hold. Wondering if they behave better with traditional 3 strand lines?
Seeking a decent alternative so following this thread with interest.

 

[SHUG]

I have a 2ft trailer sailer l

Very small jammers required here!!
(OK I know its a typo)

 

[John the kiwi]

I have a 26 ft trailer yacht which i bought with no winches and no clutches, just the type of jamb cleat you describe.
My lines are all 6 or 8 mm and mostly come back to the cockpit. After some consideration i bought two pairs of lewmar rope clutches and a small cleveco winch (Like Olewills) for each side.
I bought the clutches from america and they arrived in my mailbox at half the cost of the local chandlery but still not a cheap exercise.
I love the clutches and especially that they dont seem to have worn the various halyards and vang and outhaul ropes at all after a couple of years of essentially being gripped in the same place.

I have now forgotten the angst about the cost but continue to be glad of the usability and performance.

Sadly the cleveco winches werent up to it though and both actually burst apart under racing loads. Have replaced them with Aluminium Harkens of similar size which seem much better and not much more cost.

Good luck.

 

[peterhull]

Jammers etc

I have a 26 ft trailer yacht which i bought with no winches and no clutches, just the type of jamb cleat you describe.
My lines are all 6 or 8 mm and mostly come back to the cockpit. After some consideration i bought two pairs of lewmar rope clutches and a small cleveco winch (Like Olewills) for each side.
I bought the clutches from america and they arrived in my mailbox at half the cost of the local chandlery but still not a cheap exercise.
I love the clutches and especially that they dont seem to have worn the various halyards and vang and outhaul ropes at all after a couple of years of essentially being gripped in the same place.

I have now forgotten the angst about the cost but continue to be glad of the usability and performance.

Sadly the cleveco winches werent up to it though and both actually burst apart under racing loads. Have replaced them with Aluminium Harkens of similar size which seem much better and not much more cost.

Good luck.

Lewmar make good quality equipment I know. Interesting set up 'John the Kiwi'. I have a self tacking jib so only one sheet winch required.

I only really need one winch for the foresail but if I use a spinny I would need 2 although I am not an experienced spinny user, it rarely gets used as a cruiser, I am ashamed to say.

I used the web link from Charles Reed for clamcleats and I was interested to see they have brought out a new range called 'CK' they seem to be an improvement on the conventional clam cleats.

Anyone have any experience of the CK range or are they too new yet, I have not checked the price yet.

Peter

 

[Fantasie 19]

I used the web link from Charles Reed for clamcleats and I was interested to see they have brought out a new range called 'CK' they seem to be an improvement on the conventional clam cleats.

Anyone have any experience of the CK range or are they too new yet, I have not checked the price yet.

Peter

Looks basically like a standard alloy clamcleat but with a gate/fairlead? I think I'd still prefer a camcleat for grip...

 

[peterhull]

I have read your set up again 'olewill' I am 'warming' to it, I know where I can buy another 2 Lewmar 6 alloy winches for £30 each plus PP so maybe this could be a good solution, it certainly is simple, no expensive rope clutches or jammers to wear. Presumably you can fit more than one horn cleat behind the winch to avoid cleats becoming too congested with cleated lines?

Peter

PS having thought some more about this, I have 6 lines, 3 on each side of the coach roof , in order to get another line on the winch drum I would have to release a line and loose tension, not sure if this would work in my case unless I had some jammers forward of the winch.

 

[peterhull]

This is an interesting solution and am still considering it, thanks for your suggestion Fantasie 19

Peter

 

[peterhull]

I have a 2ft trailer sailer and fitted many years ago extra halyard winches. It had one each side and now has 2 each side.
https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=93088&search123=93088&intAbsolutePage=1
NB one oz dollar is UK55pence
This is an example of cheap winch which is cheaper than a clutch. No question of halyards slipping as they go to a horn cleat after the winch. I use a winch for jib halyard another for main halyard and the other 2 get used for whatever. ie mainsail outhaul,cunningham vang or when reefed one for tack and one for clew.
good luck olewill

Thanks Olewill
I have acquired 2 more s/h Lewmar 6 alloy winches £30 each which I intend to locate on the coach roof with suitable reinforcement to follow your arrangement.

Do you have to remove some of the lines from a winch whilst under tension because you have more lines than winches? Do you supplement with a few jammers as well or is the tension on some lines not that great like topping lift etc which can be transferred without too much problem?.

Peter

 

[Seajet]

I have 2 Spinlock XAS clutches, for main & headsail halliards; I use alloy clamcleats for the spin / spare halliard, topping lift, clew outhaul, 2 of 3 reefing lines and pole uphaul ( could really do with an extra space each side but the neat ball bearing deck organisers only go to 4 a side ).

I find this mix of clutches & clamcleats works well.

I recently replaced all the alloy clamcleats as their appearance had degraded after 15-20 years; the new clamcleats available - if one specifies ' hard anodised ' - are much more durable, and dark grey in colour in case that's of interest.

 

[peterhull]

Clutches and clamcleats

I have 2 Spinlock XAS clutches, for main & headsail halliards; I use alloy clamcleats for the spin / spare halliard, topping lift, clew outhaul, 2 of 3 reefing lines and pole uphaul ( could really do with an extra space each side but the neat ball bearing deck organisers only go to 4 a side ).

I find this mix of clutches & clamcleats works well.

I recently replaced all the alloy clamcleats as their appearance had degraded after 15-20 years; the new clamcleats available - if one specifies ' hard anodised ' - are much more durable, and dark grey in colour in case that's of interest.

Thank-you Seajet for info on your set up,

Yes I must admit I have been giving a lot of thought to this and a mixture of cleats and rope clutches makes sense to keep the cost down.

I have also been looking at some 'Sprenger' (German make) cam cleats (as opposed to clam cleats) with needle roller bearings on Ebay about £26 from Ivan Boat Supplies Lymington I think. They take up more space sideways I guess than clam cleats so it may be difficult to fit them in. They seem reasonable quality and are manufactured with mixture of SS, alloy and plastic.

Peter

 

[blackbeard]

For what it's worth.
Clam cleats work well for me; I haven't had them wear out, even the plastic ones, though I guess the metal ones would be more durable. They do need to be the right size for the rope. They slip if the wrong size, or if the rope is starting to get worn. They work best with soft flexible rope. I suspect they shouldn't be used with heavy loads, as (even if they hold) it would be difficult to get the rope out (in contrast to a conventional cleat where the rope can always be released). But on a smaller boat they are fine. You can have several ahead of the winch, such that the rope can be placed in the cleat, winched in, and the rope can then be taken off the winch and the winch used with another rope (as with Spinlock clutches also). If you do this, position the clamcleats very carefully (as also with Spinlock). When releasing the rope, put it on the winch and take up the tension first. Make sure it can't fall into the clamcleat if you don't want it to ( make sure it's not one with an integral fairlead). On the other hand, if you use a Clamcleat with an integral fairlead for the topping lift, a knot in the right place can stop the boom falling on your head (!).
Cam cleats also OK used in the same way. Again, wouldn't be good with heavy load. Some ingenuity required in placement if used with several lines to the same winch. I have found that the (some) cams do wear eventually, and I think they are not so kind to the rope.
I have found that the small Spinlocks do tend to slip. Maybe the size of rope is critical, also a "hard" rope is perhaps more likely to slip. The larger Spinlocks are better, of course, but are suited to a larger diameter rope and come with a larger price tag.