Roller Reefing Won't Turn

[andrewwoods]

Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

I have a Roller Reefing Genoa on my Seawych, but when I pull the rope to furl the sail, the reefing gear does not turn.

This is a pre-weekend question to tap everybody's knowledge before I go to my boat at the weekend to do some maintenance tasks.

It's an old boat, but new to me.

See picture of somebody else's seawych properly configured here
http://www.seawych.org/Gallery/Hunter/P1010010.JPG



I have bought new nylon bearings for the top & bottom, but not fitted them yet.
Should I lubricate them with something? If so, what?

It is possible that the forestay was not tight enough, or the backstays were not tight enough - leading to the same effect.
It's a trailer sailer, so I have to slacken off & retighten the stays every time.

How should the bottom of the gear be fixed? There's a large drum around which the rope winds, and there is a 'fixed' piece below that which doesn't rotate.
Is it sufficient to just tie this to the pulpit?

Any advice on things to try is most welcome. I will report back next week.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[maxxi]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

The odds are Andrew, that your problem is the halyard wrapping around the headsail foil, between the sail and the top terminal. If this is the case you should ensure that the halyard tension is at tight as you can practicably make it - but long term, you have to ensure that the halyard comes away from the spar at an angle of at least 20 degrees. This is usually achieved by attaching a special fairlead on the leading edge of the mast, at an appropriate position below the halyard sheave.
As for your later question, the bottom drum revolves but it's fitting should be attached to the stemhead so that it is fixed, ideally by means of a proper rigging link which will absorb side loads but still prevent rotation.
Bearings etc, can wear but in all probability you will solve the problem as above.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

The fixed bit out the bottom is designed to be locked / bolted to a non-rotating point on the deck. Most boats have this secured by the same pin / bolt that holds the forestay bottle screw at the deck fitting. There is no way you should just 'tie it off at the pulpit' ........

Once you have it secured ....... can you turn the drum by hand ? It will be stiff, but you should be able to. If not then it is likely siezed and will require some investigation.

What make is it ?

Remember that basically it is a tube rotating around the stay, with a staionary point at head for the head of the genny to be fixed to, and a drum at bottom to take the furling line and rotate the tube. Keep the mind fixed on its simplicity and you'll soon start to gather where you may have a problem.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[andrewwoods]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

OK, thanks for info.

1. The halyard comes back down the forestay and ties off at the top of the drum, so that shouldn't be a problem. I will check, of course.

2. Yes, I could turn the drum by hand, so it's not siezed, but it's not supposed to be a foredeck job either!

Andrew

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[chas]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

Did it work for the previous owner? if so, are you using the correct halliard? If the forestay is too loose and the halliard is tight, the top swivel can be pulled to an angle at which it will jam. If this is not the case and the bottom swivel is free, then halliard wrap (as mentioned already) is most likely but it is odd if it is doing it for you and not the previous owner.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[andrewwoods]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

Don't know - I bought the boat (cheap) without the benefit of a sea trial, and I don't have contact details for the previous owner.

Looks like the most likely is slack forestay syndrome.

This weekend (weather permitting) I will raise the mast and be able to check it out top and bottom (might need a ladder!). The boat is on its trailer away fro m the water at present.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[steve28]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

it does sound like you might have a rotostay furler, if this is the case check that the whole drum and foild will slide up the forestay, normally get about 4-6 inches of movement up the forestay which also reveals the bottlescrew for tightening the forestay.
the whole thing revolves on a couple of bushes though so you may not have this type if you have ballbearings as replacements.
plastimo told me that to get their furlers working smoothly pour hot water(not boiling) into the bearing assemblys and this dissolves the salt that causes the stiffness.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[chas]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

I suspect, if the spare bearings are nylon, it is not a Rotostay as I believe thse have metal bearings (mine has). It might be a plastimo. From past posts these do not have too good a reputation!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

I have a plastimo, which has metal bearing races. I use silicon PTFE spray to lubricate the system.

I did not see anyone mentioning your reefing line, usually about 8 to 10mm pre stretched. If this is not prestretched then you will just pull and pull and the line will just tighten on the drum, as it thins out it will sink into any gaps on the coil.

Also, when you wound the line onto the drum did you keep some tension on it, otherwise it may struggle to unwrap as you pull it, you are pulling at an angle to the drum and hoping to convert this into a rotary action, if the coil is loose it will just tighten to the point it will feel jammed.

I have had many problems over the last couple of seasons, the same as you mention, I altered the angle of attack of the reefing line, changed the rotation on the drum, I had it back to front, this meant the coil was going around the back, you need it to run around the front so the foil empties ccw if the line is on the port side.

I fitted a large bent shackle to the top bearing, this helped the angle of the halyard to the mast, very easy and cheap.

Hope this gives you some ideas for the weekend.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/TC_IrishCruise_2003_00.html>Irish Cruise</A>

 

[Guest]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

We are getting somewhere ....

The turning by hand was to check that it is not seized. OK - we know it is not.

The halyard back down the forestay ....... does the halyard actually become the furling line - as with some Profurls ? the line being made off before dropping through the drum .... If so then there is no reason that halyard wrap should occur ..... as the old halyard to the mast is redundant.

I had one of these and it was a bitch to furl / unfurl ...... it needed absolutely the right angle to the drum from the pulpit block guide. But once set right - it is a really good system.

When the gear is rigged - you already mentioned about the securing plates under the drum .... asking about what to do with them ..... is the drum too low and catching on the bottle screw top section inside ??? This will stop any furling gear dead ......


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[andrewwoods]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

Thanks everybody for helpful comments.

I now have loads of things to check at the weekend.

All the Seawyches I have seen (including the one in that photo earlier) do have the drum tied off to the pulpit with rope. I will investigate alternatives to this so that I can eliminate that as the cause.

The halyard ties off to the top (rotating) bit of the drum and is completely separate from the actual reefing line.

I may not have kept sufficient tension on the reefing line when I rolled it in - I'll unwind it and do it again.

Thanks

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Trevethan]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

I had the same promblem on my boat.

The problem was there was too much halyard at the top of the mast.

Make up an adjustable rope strop to attach the tack at the base of the forestay.

Haul the sail as high as you can so only a few inches of halyard are visible between sail and sheeve. and then tighten up rope strop.

See if the drum will turn. Next measure the strop, lower the sail and get your sail maker/other person with good sewing skills to make up a webbing strop the same length. Attach strop between top of sail and the fitting the halyard attaches to.

If you don't understand the directions, drop me a line nicholas.trevethan@reuters.com and I can call you to explain.

Cheers

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

I have my outer rope guide tied off to the pulpit to stop it turning when reefing. But the drum itself is free to turn. The chain-plates extending out from under the drum is made of to the forestay fastening on deck.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[Guest]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

Newport Town Quay - I believe ??

OK - your picture shows the smaller Rotastay type that needs a lashing to stop the bottom fixing turning - as you rightly say tied of to the pulpit. If you don't do this - you may unscrew your forestay bottle screw !!!!

I would suggest that the bottom 'joint' has probably got salt / other crud in it and needs a good clean up. Also if you let the sail unfurl without keeping some tension on the furling line to make sure it lays well on the drum - it will bind, lock-up and generally be an arse to use.

There is very little to go wrong with this type and a careful once-over may reveal its quirk !!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by nigel_luther on 09/10/2003 13:08 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[andrewwoods]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

This is pretty much what I meant, but I didn't explain very well.

The top part of the drum is free to rotate when I pull the reefing line.

The bottom part is fixed, by tying to the pulpit with rope (??)

On my boat there is no other way of fixing the bottom part of the drum. There is no deck fixing to clip it to, for instance.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[andrewwoods]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

Yes, Town Quay in Newport.

More pictures and explanations from the excellent Seawych Owners Association Website.

http://www.seawych.org/Gallery.htm



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

Newport ...

One of my favourite spots ......... I normally try to get right up to the top pontoon and turn facing out if possible. Otherwise its a bit tight to turn on anything except near high water with that mud bank running the centre of the river !!!

The HM and his ass't are a pair of the most pleasant people in the job I find.

Maybe I'll see you there sometime ......


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[rex_seadog]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

I owned a Seawych up until about 5-6 years ago and it had exactly the same roller furling gear that you have described. By coincidence I saw my old boat (Snowgoose) for the first time since selling her only a couple of weekends ago moored in the River Exe and luckily took several digital photos. I have taken a close look at these to refresh my memory and, as Nigel says, the lower guide arm is attached by a cord to the pulpit to stop it rotating. The halyard comes back down the foil and attaches to the top of the drum which should be free to rotate relative to the wire forestay. This being the case I have to agree with Nigel that it must be crud in the system which needs cleaning out. (I would try hot water or maybe WD40). I can't remember (or see clearly from the pictures) what the top bearing is like but it seems to be fairly simple. Since the mast is down it should be easy enough to check if the bearings are seized. Presumably, since you have bought new nylon bearings, you must suspect this to be the problem?
I used to be a member of the Seawych owners club and you will find them to be very helpful.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

Yes .... sorry - my fault for not looking at the picture earlier ...... see my post later under your original.

As I see it - where you have the reefing drium not fixed low down and back-stay providing the tensioning ..... ie you have the bottle screw below the drum - this stops the bottom part of the unit - the fixed non-rotating part from beiung fixed to the deck / fastening. If I am correct you have a unit that was not originally designed to sit so high and have the bottle screw below it.

BUT it should still work once the bottom part is fixed, the drum is freed up, the sail is furled well and line controlled going in / out ......

There is a way to fix the bottom part ...... using metal strips either side of the bottle screw ..... bolt it where the lashing would have gone and then down at bottom to the deck fastening. BUT make sure that this deck fastening is not a bolt through the deck where it can unscrew due to the action of the reffing gear trying to turn it ........


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[andrewwoods]

Re: Roller Reefing Won\'t Turn

Thanks for the info.

Yes, the Seawych Owners club is great - friendly and helpful people.
I joined as soon as I bought my boat.

The nylon bearings were only £10 for the set, so I thought it worth replacing them anyway.

I still think my most likely cause was slack forestay, but perhaps worsened by bad rolling of the line onto the drum, poor fixing of the drum and possibly a dodgy line pull angle.

I am getting quite confident that I will have this fixed this weekend.

<hr width=100% size=1>