Roller Reefing Headsail

[Rowana]

I'm going to look at a 27ft yacht next week sometime which still has hanked on headsails. Could someone give me a ball-park figure for conversion to roller reefing??

I'm assuming that it would require a new forestay plus all the roller gear, and one of the present sails re-cut to suit. Is this correct, or have I missed something??

If I do buy her I may retain the hanked on sails, at least to start with, but I would just like a rough idea as to the cost of conversion should I ever go that way.

Is it a DIY job, or do I need the services of a rigger??

Any advice gratefully recieved.

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[Georgio]

Yes you can do it yourself and in the short term you could get your existing sail converted to have a luff tape an use that but it probably won't roll up as well as a specially cut sail with UV and foam strip.

I have fitted a couple of roller-refing kits (one was a rotastay) they took about a day but had good instructions.

as for price I can't help but they range from the cheap (plastimo) to the expensive (Rotastay and others)

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[AndrewB]

I installed a new roller-reefing system a few months back. Quotes for the kit including forestay varied from £1,400 to £2,200 inc VAT, but for a bigger boat. I would guess half that for yours.

Some but not all systems will work with the original forestay. Some (e.g. Facnor) are designed for DIY fitting, others are better left to the riggers - generally the blurb says if the maker thinks it suitable for DIY. Your existing genoa will need a new tabling to work, cost maybe £150 or so from your sailmaker. It still will not be a brilliant fit, some additional adjustment may be necessary.

 

[1114C]

did the same on a 26 foot for about 950 - pleased with the results too

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[LadyInBed]

Well done Jim, looks like you are might be putting your feet in the water, metaphorically of course /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
Don’t forget to check that the sheeting cringle is well stitched in /forums/images/icons/blush.gif


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[nordic_ranger]

Won't comment on the reefing system as others have covered it, but you can buy slugs from your chandlers about 30p each and whip them on in place of the hanks.
Not the best solution I know but it allows you to use existing sails without the cost of having a luff rope. There are various slugs to suit different systems.

Jim.

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

the \'slug\'

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[maxi]

Re: The Slug

Slugs do work but not for all systems. Furlex for instance has a very narrow luff groove for which slugs are not available. I would be very cautious about roller reefing with slugs in place as localised sail damage could well ensue, for roller furling though they are absolutely fine.


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[charles_reed]

Most roller forestays can be self-fitted - it's worth going for one of the more expensive: - Hoods or Furlex at the top end, Rotostay or Facnor in the middle.
Top-end will set you back c£2500, mid-range about £1400.
Avoid bottom-end, such as Plastimo, if you want a long, trouble-free life and if you're going to sail seriously go for the next size up from the minimum. (I've allowed for that in my pricing)
Most kits provide a new headstay with them, whilst you can use your existing headstay it's probably better not to as you'll have a lot of noise and possible bearing damage. (The forestays have extended ferrules and are plastic covered)
Roller-furling headsails should be cut considerable flatter than a traditional one - this means taking out some broad seam, (easy on a crosscut, rather more difficult on radial), putting in a luff rope (usually5mm) and, ideally, putting in some generous luff-padding.
It's a little labour intensive and I'd guess, if you arrange to do it during a slack period it'll cost you about £150 for a 25 m2 foresail.

For anyone fitting a roller-furler above this size, I'd recommend a snubbing winch as a very worthwhile addition, a cheap 2nd hand 8 is usually adequate for the job.


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[Redmond]

I've just had fitted a reckman system on an oyster 41 - when getting quotes fitting was included in the retail price and discounts could be negotiated. it costs 2200incl of vat. - this was about the top end of the quality spectrum.
recting the genoa which came from a 45ft bt was 600 as this needed extensive cutting down (remember that with the fittings in place the hoist might be considrablt shorter nearly 3 ft for mine) the sacrificial strip was 300 extra.
your boat will probably be less than half that. The best people to talk to are probably Seldon (furlex) or Harken. Seldon put me on to Southern rigging who told me what I wanted and how much it would cost. A few phone calls will give you a clear picture

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[RTB]

Sorry to sound ignorant - but I am - why would you want a seperate "snubbing winch" instead of just using an existing winch. I suppose I am asking what a snubbing winch is for ?

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[Boatless_One]

Just out of interest, why are you thinking of changing from traditional?

I can see the advantages, but for family sailing we actually like having the old hank on ones - gives the crew something to do on the foredeck, keeps them safety conscious and makes you think ahead a bit (which is never a bad thing).


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[hillyarder]

Plastimo are rubbish eh? Those millions of French who sail us into a cocked hat are all talking bollocks.

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[Lee_Shaw]

Aaah, when ah wert lad we were so poor we couldn't afford seperate headsails, so we used tut just have the one great big huge thing, if we wanted to reduce sail area we had to wrap it round a peice o tube ont forestay til the thing set like an ospikal bed sheet, wit bloody foot of sail half way up tut forestay and clew up in the air. Eeeeh by eck it were grim back then.

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[Rick]

Afraid I beg to differ with Charles - agree most can be DIY fitted. The Hood and Furlex do require a new forestay, both using a Stay-loc style fitting at the drum end. All others I'm aware of can be installed over an existing forestay - if your forestay is near end of life, or of unknown age, it would be prudent to replace it anyway.

To the best of my knowledge, none of the furling systems rely on any coating of the forestay - they largely include some form of bearing in their spar arrangement, except for the relatively primitive units using dingy section masts as their foil sections. The Profurl for example, uses a pair of bearing surfaces at each join of the tubular sections. Plastimo use a slighty more primative version.

As far as value for money goes, (and this is for a cruising boat with little racing involved) I'd plump for the Profurl everytime - however my current boat has a 12 year old Plastimo 810S that has no problems apart from wear of the slide - bearing in the upper swivel. I would however stay away from any units that do not have an upper swivel - ie those where the halyard returns to the drum.

As far as the snubbing winch is concerned, I'm aware that several manufacturers advice that you should never use a winch to pull a furling line. On occassions (and only in strong winds) I'll take one wrap on a convenient winch when reefing my headsail, however that is to gain the benefit of not loosing ground - I would never apply a handle to the winch - if the sail will not roll up, there is either too much air in it, or something is caught - I've seen plenty of furlers with twisted sections as the result of furling / reefing under massive loads that the foil should never have been expected to bear. In those cases, either ease more sheet, or bear away and blanket the headie behind the main - never use a winch to gain purchase to pull in line.

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[NigeCh]

<<< "I'm going to look at a 27ft yacht next week sometime which still has hanked on headsails. Could someone give me a ball-park figure for conversion to roller reefing?? " >>>

Less than £600 ... Mines a CO26 with a 120% genoa.

<<< "I'm assuming that it would require a new forestay plus all the roller gear, and one of the present sails re-cut to suit. Is this correct, or have I missed something??" >>>

No. A 27 footer masthead rig should have a 5mm diameter max forestay. The sails don't need to be recut unless they are decksweepers ie the tack height above the deck is about 7" min for above deck drums. But you may have a problem with your genoa boltrope. [See below]

<<< "If I do buy her I may retain the hanked on sails, at least to start with, but I would just like a rough idea as to the cost of conversion should I ever go that way.

Is it a DIY job, or do I need the services of a rigger??" >>>

Answer: Scheafer Snapfurl. Cost less than £500. In spite of what's been posted elsewhere on this forum the foil doesn't twist - Mine is now 5 years old and has been really abused mainly in winter sailing - It's a grand piece of kit. It's a DIY dream as it can be installed without removing the forestay and it's designed in such a way that the forestay can be tensioned with the drum in place.

Boltrope: The Scheafer Snapfurl requires a #4 boltrope. It cost me an extra £40 to have the boltrope changed from #6 to #4 ... and it took the sailmaker all of 15 minutes to effect the change.

Here is a piece of kit where cheaper REALLY is better - If mine broke tomorrow I'd buy another Snapfurl without hesitation .... [and for the record I threw away a Plastimo furler as it disintegrated and dropped bits on the deck.]






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[snowleopard]

a few hints:

1. when getting quotes/enquiring at boat shows the key dimension they ask for is forestay diameter.

2. you may not have to change the forestay

3. don't buy a system where the foil sections glue together, go for one with locking screw. glue can and does gome apart.

4. for a smaller boat a system with integral halliard where the foil is in compression can be a much cheaper alternative to the one that uses your existing halliard and a sliding swivel. also it avoids the almost inevitable re-routing of the halliard.

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[hillyarder]

blimey your a funny bloke. or is it that you are grim now.

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[kds]

I must admit I have had good service from Plastimo kit on a 26ft over last 6 years and no problems fitting it Much cheaper and good service from SEATEACH. But - DO be careful about the lead of the halyard - the instructions are clear, but first time I thought I would get away with it - and didn't.
I do not think you will be happy with the set of the Genoa when part rolled unless it is cut to be a reefing sail and having seen a few which were modified from hanked type to a reefing type I was glad I went for new sails designed for the job. If you only EVER intend to furl the jib all the way in, you would get away with it
Ken

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[Rick]

Hi Jim,

Took a wqhile to find, but I finally got round to it - this article answers the why's, not the price. http://www.briontoss.com/education/archive/miscnov03.htm

Cheers
Rick

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