Roller headsail - buy a new sail or convert existing sails to fit ?

[homa]

Now....

The boat comes with 3 decent hank-on headsails, and I estimate at least another 4-5 seasons use in them. So am loathed to just loose them and buy a new roller headsail.

Is it worth me paying to have my existing headsails converted to a luff tape for use in a new furler ?

Or should I bite the bullet and buy a new headsail designed for the furler ?

I have to say I am reluctantly switching to roller headsail, purely for the convenience and easy sail handling when sailing with the family. The boys are far too young at the moment to have forward sail changing !
Basically I do most things whilst SWMBO helms or looks after/occupies the kids when it comes to sail changing & mooring/unmooring.

I am a cruiser not a racer, but am still looking for sails that set well. The fact that I can set one of the existing sail on a foil and roll it up at the end of the day seems a good compromise.

Am I on the right track, or are the sails only going to set well enough when unfurled completely ?

More importantly - has anyone else done this ? If so what brand of furler ?

Tx in advance,

Homa

 

[cliff]

Convert your existing ones. I did some on my previous boat for ~£70 a throw including some minor repairs. Might not be the ultimate cut but ideal for cruising.

Remember to get a UV sacrificial strip fitted to each sail if you are leaving them up. Personally I would go for converting your biggest jib and let it go at that - you can always roll some of it away if you need a smaller fore sail.

Depending on the condition and cut of your existing sails the sail maker may recomment fitting a foam filled luff which helps maintain sail shape when partially rolled away.

As for type. Furlex seem popular and reasonably simple to look after.
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"

 

[Swagman]

Hi Homa,

IMHO get a new sail made.

If you want a fuller cut sail to furl nicely you'll need it made with a foam or thicker set of panels down the luff to 'fill out' the middle panels as the sail is furled in - and yes thats vital if you ever plan to sail with a part rolled in headsail.

You'll also need to consider UV degradation - which is why 99% of furled headsails have a UV strip sewn to the luff.

Adding both to an old sail may be as or more expensive than ordering a new one - easpecially if you buy wisely from the lower cost sailmakers.

And of course - once you've got it underway - you could put all your current secondahand sails up for sail to recover part of your costs.

Cheers

JOHN

 

[Talbot]

if you are changing to roller reefed system, you could consider adding a removable forestay, using the largest sail as the roller reefed sail (or replacing with new) and retain the two smaller sails for use on the removable forestay for high wind/upwind sailing.

 

[Guest]

Two sides of the coin .... and more ....

a) Why do you put a "so many years on sail use" when you also qualify by saying you do not race etc. My sails were x years old when I bought my boat ... 8 years later still in good condition ...
b) You will get replies about convert sails .... very good economic idea for a lot of good sails ....
c) Y ou will have replies that say .... sail will never set properly, not cut right etc. ..... get a new one made. Well set of a sail is more than just cut - it can be down to sheet lead - sorted with a short length of rope and a small block - barber hauler.

Anyway - let me throw a curved ball in here .... there are sail-/ furling gear suppliers such as Seateach who would be happy to exchange / do a deal on existing hanked sails for you to have a furling gear / sail combo ... all you have to do is pick up the phone and ask your local / not local sail suppliers .....

You may have a pleasant surprise !!!!

 

[bedouin]

IMHO no sail sets well partly furled; but when partly furled one cut for roller gear will set better than one cut to be hanked on

If you go for roller furling you have two options. You either go for a single headsail for all wind conditions, or you carry a range of sails and then change them for the expected wind conditions.

If you intend to take the former approach then you will need to get a new sail - it is likely that the existing sail is not of strong-enough cloth to be worth converting.

In either case it is probably worth getting the smaller sails converted as that will give you more options

 

[Robin]

Once you go the roller route you will rarely change to a smaller headsail. Bite the bullet and get the best one you can afford and do the job properly and you will find that is the only one you will use, although having one of the others modified as spare might be a good idea. Otherwise why clog up the lockers with a bunch of sails you won't use, that is one of the advantages of roller sails in that you don't have a load of wet sailbags to find a home for anymore. I used to be a purist and change headsails right up until I traded my 30 footer for a 33 footer and felt the weight and size of the No 1 genoa when I had to change it down on the delivery trip - once was quite enough with a crew of just me and SWMBO thanks. Our current 41 footer has a 585 sq ft genoa that takes both of us to lift. Those who say change headsails IMO either have big crews or small boats!

 

[homa]

Re: Two sides of the coin .... and more ....

I only put in estimate in seasons use as a factor to consider against buying a new furler headsail. Plus the sails do all set rather well.

I know its a big compromise to stay with existing sails rather than buy new, but in theory it should give me the best of both worlds.........shoudn't it ?

Homa

 

[homa]

I think you have hit the nail on the head Robin,

My heart says keep the existing sails, but my head says I will never change the headsail once it is on the furler.

I recon I could keep the smallest (working jib) to set on an inner forestay.

I'll need an inner forestay for the storm jib anyway.

Homa

 

[cliff]

From your other posts you have a major amount of spending do do on your boat - so - convert your biggest jib and make do for a year or two. Mine was custom made to fit the furler and still does not sit perfectly if partially furled wheras on my previous boat I had sails converted and they set no worse than either of my two custom made genoa (made by different sail makers. You have better things to spend your money on rather than a new gennie. I would rather have decnt heating, maybe a chart plotter and or radar, life jackets, life raft, lazy jacks, in-cockpit reefing, invertor, TV, DVD etc. Slowly slowly - spend your beer tokens where really needed. You can always buy a new sail in a few years.
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"

 

[nigelhudson]

When we replaced the standing rigging on our 33 footer we replaced the furling gear. This meant a change from twin to single luff groove. The existing genoas were in good condition so we decided to replace the luff tape and add a UV strip. Arun charged £85 for the luff tape and £115 for the UV strip per sail +vat. I guess that your sail will cost about the same to convert. So I suppose you have to decide whether it's worth investing £200 in a sail that will never set as well as a purpose made furling genoa or using that money plus whatever you can get for the sails secondhand as payment towards a new sail. Decisions, decisions!

 

[Mudplugger]

Homa, If you do decide to change to Roller H/sail, it might be worth while having a look at the Sailspar ( Brightlingsea ) system....single line reefing, and built on the KISS principle. In 15 years never had a problem, and Dolphin make superb sails! but at a price!... no connection with either , other than satisfied customer.

 

[Abaker]

Robin has got it right. Before our Atlantic crossing I added a furler (Profurl) and had the local Doyle loft in Toronto build a new 120% high-cut Genoa. I sold the old hanked- on Genoa and had the old hanked-on working jib modified with a luff tape, to keep as a back-up. It has never been out of the locker. Our boat has a detachable inner stay as original equipment on which we often use the original hanked-on staysail, either with the new Genoa or without, depending on the wind. The staysail also has reef points, for use as a storm jib, though we have never needed to do that.
Another point: in a blow, changing down from a large headsail with a furler & luff tape to a smaller one would be significantly more difficult than changing down with hanked-on sails, because you would have no hanks to keep the sail from blowing about as it is lowered--worse than dropping a main with boltrope in a mast groove or track rather than slides.
Yet another point: a partially furled Genoa works well enough for cruising when sailing off the wind. To sail close-hauled in a strong wind you will need something else.

 

[Avocet]

We had the same dilema - worse in fact because we had pretty tan sails and nobody could match the cloth so we'd have had to change the main too if we were really fussy about apearances! We went to see Jeckells (the original sailmaker) at one of the boat shows and took the genoa with us. We were told it would be no problem to convert it to roller reefing and pretty cheap too. They did, however, strongly suggest that we did NOT ask them to fit a sacrificial strip. The reason they gave was that with our sail being cut as a hank-on sail (and being a bit old and baggy too) the extra thickness of cloth at the edges would really make it a horrible shape when reefed. We went with their advice and were pleased with the result (although by the time it was the size of (say) a No. 2) it wasn't too good) but it did the job. Unfortunately, we then got lazy and wanted to leave it set all the time so I asked another sailmaker to put a UV strip on. I have to say it now has a pretty horrible shape and the leech always fluttered regardless of sheeting position. Added to that, it's MUCH worse when reefed - wouldn't reef it much smaller than a No.1 and expect it to work! We've now added a leech line and that has sorted the fluttering but its not half the sail it was! Time to start again, methinks! In the meantime, we've had the old hank-on No.1 re-cut for roller reefing (no UV strip) and we just keep that on board in case the wind gets up a bit.

 

[Guest]

I will not say that UV strip is not needed ....

BUT I know quite a few boats that do not have UV strips ... maybe cause they converted hank-on sails or whatever .... The first boat that comes to mind is Milda - 60ft Clipper ... she has twin foresails and main / mizzen - all are permanent rigged on furling / booms etc and none are UV stripped. They have been there for years and still in good nick.

For those interested - it is usually the stitching that goes under UV and then cloth hardens up, literally cracks and starts to "crumble" .... but it takes years and years to do it ...

When I renewed my UV strip ... I seriously considered ripping of the remaining strip and de-rigging genny when boat left for significant period ... But in the event chose new strip - cause sail needed various re-stitching after a gale and chafe on cross-trees etc.

With modern materials and UK / N.Europe not exactly being Caribean .... is it really necessary .... ??

 

[Avocet]

Re: I will not say that UV strip is not needed ....

Our tan genoa was 30 years old but after only three seasons (in the North West of England at that!) on the roller, it was starting to fade visibly at the exposed edges.

 

[Guest]

Re: I will not say that UV strip is not needed ....

Tan colour ..... infact any colour generaly will ..... you only have to look at curtains in a window of your house. But it does not mean the material itself is bad ..... the pigment has changed ....

I also do not say that UV damage does not happen .... I suggest that maybe its not so damaging as quickly etc. as initially thought ....

I honestly believe that the biggest reason for UV strip is the general habit of leaving gennys up year after year .... If they were brought down during lay-up or long periods of idleness - UV strip is unnecessary.