Roller Furling Cruising Chute

[TonyS]

Does anyone have experience of using one of these? I sailed on a boat with one last week and it seemed a very good idea. In a 37' yacht we powered awy from 2 45' boats. It can be set up before you leave and is deployed by pulling in the sheet as a furling genoa. It has its own Dyneema? forestay and small furling drum. Similarly it can be furled away in front of the forestay with its own furling line. This one was by North sails but who else makes them, what do they cost and what are the possible disadvantages. To me it saves the hassle and danger for the not-so-agile of working on the foredeck while offering the possibility of sailing downwind when the wind is insufficient to go fast enough to reach the destination on time.

 

[newtosailing]

Hi

Bamar do a very good product called the Bamar Roll gen. If you do a google search you will find their web-site - which has a video clip of the product. I have found that it increases the times you will use an asymmetric if you are short-handed sailing or with an inexperienced crew on board.

 

[simonfraser]

i've had two asymetric ones:

the "forestay" / luff rope needs to be wire and thick, you can get wire coated with plastic, this makes it easier to furl the sail

the sail needs to be flat, a code zero or flatter, else when you furl it there will be spare material that does not roll and it all gets into a mess

the furling drum needs to be as big as you can order, easier to furl

if you position it above the deck you can see under it

mine never furled in over 20 knots of wind, could be more excitement than you need

it's an excelent solution !

 

[charles_reed]

Most probably not strictly a cruising chute but called variously (depending on vintage/predeliction of the speaker) an asymmetric spinnaker, genniker or Code 1.

The difference is that you have a "hard" luff either in dyneema/spectra or wire and it's cut much flatter and the foot is extended by about 35% of the boat's J, by either a retractable boom or a wishbone A-frame.

Generally only of use as a reaching sail, and in very moderate winds, when it is truly magnificent.

Nearly all the offshore racing single-handers use the Harken gear, probably a step-change away from their competition.

I don't bother with the reefing gear on mine, it's lifted on the 2nd spinnaker halyard and is easy enough to control up to about 18 knots - above which point all hell breaks loose.

To get it pulling properly the foot needs to be out to windward and the amount of lead on the halyard needs to be carefully varied (up to about 2m on mine) to keep it out of the disturbed air from the top of the main.
For that reason the gear is more truly furling than reefing gear.

It is a pain when trying to use it downwind, when a spinnaker is really needed.

However mine is only 700ft2, a far cry from the 2400 on an Ocean 60.
Nevertheless I had 3 goes at finding a sufficiently robust forward extension after first a 65mm and 110mm aluminium extrustion were massacred by it.

 

[TonyS]

Thanks for the information. I have looked at the site and particularly the video. The sail in the video appears to have a luff that is bowed like a spinnaker. How do they manage that? Are you based in the UK? Where did you buy the sail from and how much did it cost? Did you consider a G1 genneker from North Sails?

 

[TonyS]

The ones I have seen have a textile forestay and fold away into a small bag. I would have thought that a steel rope would make it very unwieldy. How did you get on? What sort of bowsprit did you find was effective? I was told that in a blow you can hoist the genoa and the genneker collapses behind it. Did you try this?

 

[TonyS]

Thanks for the information. However, I am not into racing, except with other cruising boats, and don't understand these paragraphs:-

"Nearly all the offshore racing single-handers use the Harken gear, probably a step-change away from their competition.

I don't bother with the reefing gear on mine, it's lifted on the 2nd spinnaker halyard and is easy enough to control up to about 18 knots - above which point all hell breaks loose.

To get it pulling properly the foot needs to be out to windward and the amount of lead on the halyard needs to be carefully varied (up to about 2m on mine) to keep it out of the disturbed air from the top of the main.
For that reason the gear is more truly furling than reefing gear."

If you have more time could you please spell it out without the jargon. ie
Which bit is made by Harken? The furler?
What do you mean that you dodn't bother with reefing gear? How do you roller furl without a furler?
How do you get the foot out to windward. I want something that can be used without getting out of the cockpit!
What do you mean by varying the lead on the halyard?
Thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[TonyMS]

We have a "genniker" made by Arun on our catamaran. We also have a proper asymetric spin. Both are set on a short bowsprit.

The proper spin is bigger and faster. However, it is a bit of a handful for an elderly couple if the wind is gusty and/or over 4.

The geniker gets used much more, because it can be left hoisted all day and rolled and unrolled from the cockpit. Sudden squawls hold no terrors. It pulls well over the same angle range as the spin, but the sheet position needs to come right forward when running. It works goosewinged, but we do have an enormous sheeting base.

Tony

 

[Ships_Cat]

I am hoping this is not thread drift as is to the same point.

I would be interested in any classy solutions as to how peeps may have fitted prods without structural alteration to the boat and such that they can be withdrawn so the berthing length of the boat is not extended, or alternatively how they may have managed without prods when using furling asymentrics.

John

 

[simonfraser]

i had the second one made with a steel luff that was too thin, i.e. it did not furl, so had it replaced

the steel luff coiled up in about a 50 cm diameter circle, not a problem to me

bowsprit was about 1 meter in length, that's the easy bit

i have tried to get it to collapse behind the main, that didn't work, i could not have the genoa and the asymetric up for sheeting reasons

both sails on a 8m catamaran

 

[charles_reed]

<<Which bit is made by Harken? The furler?>>

The furler - look at www.harken.com

<<What do you mean that you dodn't bother with reefing gear? How do you roller furl without a furler?>>

As I said, the sail is hoisted and dropped just like a spinnaker, but without a pole and with only 2 sheets. The point: it's the sail which is the "secret weapon", not the furling gear.

<<How do you get the foot out to windward. I want something that can be used without getting out of the cockpit!>>

On most racing boats the pole is fixed. Some have a pole which can be moved about a fixed point allowing the outer end to swivel to windward. This allows more effective use of the genniker on a run. See the Beowulf on www.setsail.com for a visual of the effect.
In my case I have a length of Barton mainsheet track on a fixed wishbone with a dolphin stay. The traveller control lines are led back to the cockpit through jammers. this means you can vary how far the foot is to windward eithout leaving the cockpit.

<<What do you mean by varying the lead on the halyard?>>

The sail is not pulled hard up to the stop, this means that the head is at a variable distance from the mast, and not encountering turbulence from the mainsail and or mast.
Generally the greater the wind-force the more you let out, but the wind direction also affects how much you pull in or let out.

Whilst the genniker is a superb sail for light reaching conditions, it is, for most cruising sailors in coastal waters, too specialised to be of real value and certainly should not be considered as a running sail when a spinnaker is far more effective. Far better under those conditions to use a boomed-out 140%+ genoa.
It really comes into its own on tradewinds passages.

Having said that on a recent passage to and from Croatia-Malta the genniker did more work than either the genoa or spinnaker.

I sail singlehanded and can appreciate your desire to avoid the foredeck, unfortunately you can only go part-way towards this, without suffering considerable disadvantages.

 

[newtosailing]

I may be wrong but I think I am right in saying the sail I have is a G2 Gennaker from North Sails with the Bamar Roll Gen. Bamar is an Italian company but the UK agent is based in Lymington. If you do a search for Bamar UK on google you will find their web-site - ask to speak to John - he helped fit my Bamar (but I originally got it from Sweden). He is also a sailmaker so I am sure he will be able to answer any technical questions far better than I (as my username suggests!).

PM me if you have any other queries

 

[bedouin]

For normal "cruising chutes" you should also consider a snuffer - a much cheaper and simpler alternative to the furling gear.

I have snuffers on my symmetric and reaching asymmetric spinnakers. I also have a gennaker which was specified with a dyneema luff rope so that it could be fitted to a furler, but so far the £500 cost has put me off /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[adelaidem]

Our 28ft classic has just received a very lightweight furling overlapping Genoa the furler is a harken endless rope furler.We used a Wichard pad eye (3ton) fitting on the fore deck.In oz they call this type of sail a screacher sail. Its a little scary to what I am used to but in 12 knots of breeze I can sail up wind (30degrees)and get 6knot boat speed and no weather helm. But any more breeze and I furl it in less than half a minute and at the end of the trip I snake it into a bag a store it down below.

 

[David_Jersey]

I am pretty sure I understand what you have - but do you have any photos?

Am I right in saying that this is fitted forward of thr usual roller furling headsail and is just used for light winds?

 

[TonyS]

Thanks to everyone for the detailed information and taking time to answer my simplistic questions. It is a much more complex subject than I first thought and I have learnt a lot. I will have to decide what to order but will probably chat to the different sailmakers at the Southampton Boat Show first.

 

[adelaidem]

This is the only pic I have for now,will add some full sail pics in the next few weeks,note I have moved the foot of the furler forward since this pic.And yes the whole unit is forward of the fore stay so furling is a must for tacking.