Rod Kicker

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KAM

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I was looking at fitting a boom strut or rod kicker. I see Selden sell a rod kicker without a gas spring. I was just wondering what the point of this was. I can buy a 2.5kn stainless adjustable gas strut and make up some end fittings for much less than the cost of yacht item. Would this work. Has anyone tried it.
 
KAM said:
I was looking at fitting a boom strut or rod kicker. I see Selden sell a rod kicker without a gas spring. I was just wondering what the point of this was. I can buy a 2.5kn stainless adjustable gas strut and make up some end fittings for much less than the cost of yacht item. Would this work. Has anyone tried it.
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Neither has mine (it's not Selden) - I've seen a fibreglass one, but funnily enough never seen one with a gas-strut in it.
Why would one need the absorber effect of a gas strut? Minimum fixed compression distance does away with the need for a topping lift and a 3/4:1 tackle allows its use as a vang to pull down the boom.
 
I assumed without a gas spring the kicker had no ability to support the weight of the boom. Or does it just have an ordinary spring. Selden only quote a spring force for the gas strut.
 
KAM said:
I assumed without a gas spring the kicker had no ability to support the weight of the boom. Or does it just have an ordinary spring. Selden only quote a spring force for the gas strut.
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Mine has a spring in it which has a similar force to the boom weight, so that when you drop the main halyard it doesn't fall to its fully retracted position. It's done 24 years which is far longer than any gas strut I've had on a car would last.

PS the 25kN you specify would in no way support my boom and main. But yours' may be a lot smaller and lighter.
 
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For what it's worth, Ariam came with a solid kicker without a gas strut. It does support the boom, but only in its fully-telescoped state (ie, the end fitting lands on the end of the outer tube). So it effectively provides a lower end-stop for the boom's movement, and even if less experienced crew fully cast off the topping lift then the boom doesn't crash down into the cockpit. When sailing, it doesn't provide anything over what a normal kicker does.

Pete
 
I have not done the calculation yet for the leverage and angles but I though 2.5 Tonnes was enough for quite a heavy boom.
 
I would assume that the point of the spring - gas or otherwise - is to do more than just stop the boom crashing down. Providing that the strength of the spring exceeds the weight of the boom, then easing the kicker in light airs will allow the boom to rise and reduce leech tension?
 
Leighb said:
I would assume that the point of the spring - gas or otherwise - is to do more than just stop the boom crashing down. Providing that the strength of the spring exceeds the weight of the boom, then easing the kicker in light airs will allow the boom to rise and reduce leech tension?
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I believe some boats use a gas kicker to do away with the topping lift entirely. Instead, all adjustment of the boom height (whether the sail is set or stowed) is done using the kicker, acting against the upwards force of the strut. It's the sort of minimalism that makes sense (for different reasons) on race and charter boats.

Pete
 
Does anyone know if there is a spring in the selden rod kicker without the gas spring. I can't see one on the diagram anywhere. I was also wondering if a rod kicker would really help with reefing. At the moment I just slacken the halyard and let the boom take out the slack in the topping lift then hook on the rams horn and heave in the appropriate reefing line. Just found a previous post which seems to indicate that there is no spring and the selden rod kicker without a gas spring is a bit pointless.
 
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KAM said:
Does anyone know if there is a spring in the selden rod kicker without the gas spring.
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No. At least, not in mine as I posted above (I should have specified that it's the Selden one).

KAM said:
I was also wondering if a rod kicker would really help with reefing.
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I'm not sure how a rod kicker would make much difference to reefing. I suppose the gas type would eliminate the need to lift the boom on the topping lift - just slack the kicker - but that's not a big deal.

KAM said:
At the moment I just slacken the halyard and let the boom take out the slack in the topping lift then hook on the rams horn and heave in the appropriate reefing line.
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But doesn't that mean that you're trying to lift the boom up to the sail via the clew pendant, needing more effort and making it harder to get the thing tight?

Before reefing, I always lift the boom a little above the normal sailing position on the topping lift. Get the clew pendant in nice and hard, then drop the boom back into position to reapply the upwards tension at the clew.

Pete
 
KAM said:
Does anyone know if there is a spring in the selden rod kicker without the gas spring. I can't see one on the diagram anywhere. I was also wondering if a rod kicker would really help with reefing. At the moment I just slacken the halyard and let the boom take out the slack in the topping lift then hook on the rams horn and heave in the appropriate reefing line.
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I've seldom (latterly never) used the topping lift on my boat, the gas strut and a hanger on the cockpit gallows have taken all the stress out of reefing and dropping sail.
As I'm always single handed it's a great advantage having one less piece of string to play with. This morning @ 02:30 I came in to Thassos Limenas and tied up after a day & night sail from W side of Sithonia Halkidiki. Whilst that is only 89nm, it involved all points of sailing and one reef.
First two reefs are single line into the cockpit and the other two are Jiffy reefing on rams horns. I've never given it another thought. The strut does it all - in fact getting the luff of the main down, with a fully-battened Vektran main is a far bigger problem than having the lot drop on one's head.
 
I am also single handing a lot of the time. I usually just lift the boom up with the reefing line using copious amounts of adrenaline and don't touch the topping lift at all. I notice its sometimes a bit droopy by the time I get back to the cockpit and sheet in so perhaps a rod kicker would help. How about the idea of just using a standard commercial gas strut.
 
KAM said:
I am also single handing a lot of the time. I usually just lift the boom up with the reefing line using copious amounts of adrenaline and don't touch the topping lift at all. I notice its sometimes a bit droopy by the time I get back to the cockpit and sheet in so perhaps a rod kicker would help. How about the idea of just using a standard commercial gas strut.
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I don't single-hand much on the current boat, but I used to a lot on the previous one and always lifted the boom before reefing. However, if you're determined not to touch the topping lift then it sounds like a gas strut would certainly make life easier. I'm sure that Selden don't make their own, so if you can buy one that's rated for use in saltwater spray then it ought to do the same job. You'll need to make (or have made) some fittings to attach the ends to the mast and boom - if you can't find or adapt something then Colin (user Colhel) on these forums has done a couple of machining jobs for my boat and I'm sure he could help.

Pete
 
I have a Barton Boom Strut which is excellent value, simple and virtually nothing to go wrong. And much cheaper than others - used on a Moody 33.
 
If I want to drop the boom to deck level while using a trysail in storm conditions what do I do if I have a rod kicker? Do I have to disconnect it? Sounds like another job I'd rather avoid in heavy weather. My boat came without one and I've never felt the need to fit one. Topping lift and rope kicker works for me!
 
Ours seems to work well for the in mast main. The ram was dead when we bought the boat and furling required lots of fiddling with the topping lift to get the boom at the right angle with little room for error.

With a new ram in, the kicker allows a bit of "float" where the boom can move between the lowest position set by the topping lift and the highest position set by the extension of the rod. The sail and out haul are then able to set the height of the boom during furling = no creases to cause a jam.

Previous boat with conventional main had no rod kicker but we never felt we needed one.

There has been debate elsewhere about expensive marine vs cheap car, gas rams. It seems like you pay your money and take your choice.
 
typhoonNige said:
If I want to drop the boom to deck level while using a trysail in storm conditions what do I do if I have a rod kicker? Do I have to disconnect it? Sounds like another job I'd rather avoid in heavy weather. My boat came without one and I've never felt the need to fit one. Topping lift and rope kicker works for me!
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You just lash the boom to one side.
Saves having the end of it dig a hole in the deck.

The man thing with a strut kicker on a racing boat is that the boom can't fall enough to hit the deck, winches etc.
Not having a topping lift does away with drag and tangles with the backstay/distortion of leach when you have a main with long battens and some roach.
If you have good gear and winches, it's not hard to reef with a springless strut and no topping lift.
The last bit of hoisting the full main, you are lifting the boom though.
I considered putting a pin through the strut to park the boom higher, but never got around to it.

My Impala had a dinghy style lever action kicker.
Seems to me that concept could be made to push the boom up as well as down?
 
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