CaptainBob
Well-Known Member
Just posted up what turned out to be a bit of an essay about the Rocna 15 so thought I'd stick a link in here for anyone that's interested in Rocnas on Westerlys. click here
Rocna 15 kg on a Westerly Tempest - With Pictures
- Thread starter CaptainBob
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Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
That does look like a very neat arrangement for your new Rocna, and has given me some ideas if we ever change from our CQR (Rocnas not too easily available here......).
Digressing slightly, I am just wondering why you are using un-fairleads for your mooring lines, when they would have a much more fair lead (and no potential issues of chafe) if they went directly from the cleats to the pontoon?
Digressing slightly, I am just wondering why you are using un-fairleads for your mooring lines, when they would have a much more fair lead (and no potential issues of chafe) if they went directly from the cleats to the pontoon?
CaptainBob
Well-Known Member
LOL because that's how they were when we bought the boat in Feb, when we knew even less than we know now, and I'm doing everything as I found it then until I find a better way... which I now have found - thank you
In what circumstances would they be useful then?
PS. I am very new to all this so don't worry about pointing out the obvious.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
I think your fairleads would give a more fair lead if the lines were crossed over - ie from starboard fairlead to port cleat and vice versa.
But you would still have the issue of chafe (thus the plastic hose!), hence I think that it would be better to go straight from the cleat to the dock instead.
There is a lot of load on the fairleads as well in the current arrangement - and they only have two bolts each securing them, while the cleats probably have four bolts each....
But you would still have the issue of chafe (thus the plastic hose!), hence I think that it would be better to go straight from the cleat to the dock instead.
There is a lot of load on the fairleads as well in the current arrangement - and they only have two bolts each securing them, while the cleats probably have four bolts each....
JimC
Well-Known Member
Excellent and very instructive, better than much that appears in PBO.
alahol2
Well-Known Member
We had a similar problem with the anchor taking a nibble at the stem when lifting and stowed on the roller. Another solution is, as shown below, to get your local stainless man to knock up an extension.
The cardboard one wasn't strong enough
The cardboard one wasn't strong enough
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Excellent and clever way of stowing the anchor....
I do believe you are rapidly turning into a salty old seadog!!!!
I do believe you are rapidly turning into a salty old seadog!!!!
srm
Well-Known Member
Just to reply to your comment about needing to be heavier than the CQR (in your other post). If you use their table Rocna are advising on an anchor that will hold in winds up to 50 knots and include both length and displacement. They are the only manufacturer I am aware of who specify a wind range. Most anchor recommendations are to be taken with caution. I remember Bruce specified a 15 kg for a previous boat - I fitted a 30 kg (mainly because I already owned it) and it only dragged twice, both times in winds above 60 knots but I had another anchor down as well in those conditions.
Having experienced anchoring in 60 to 80 knots on three occasions in the last 35years (all in UK waters) I have just bought a Rocna - their recommendation was 20kg for my boat's length and weight so I have a 25 kg. I like to be able to sleep at night without twitching when the wind gets up.
As an afterthought - I think the bows on view is just asking for suitable features to be painted on the anchor. - dragons face perhaps?
Having experienced anchoring in 60 to 80 knots on three occasions in the last 35years (all in UK waters) I have just bought a Rocna - their recommendation was 20kg for my boat's length and weight so I have a 25 kg. I like to be able to sleep at night without twitching when the wind gets up.
As an afterthought - I think the bows on view is just asking for suitable features to be painted on the anchor. - dragons face perhaps?
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CaptainBob
Well-Known Member
Thank you Morgana
Good point.
Would be interested to hear your experiences so far with your 25 as compared to previous anchors - you obviously have a lot of experience.
Good point.
Would be interested to hear your experiences so far with your 25 as compared to previous anchors - you obviously have a lot of experience.
robmcg
Well-Known Member
15kg Rocna on a Tempest? Blimey I'm not suprised you didn't shift anywhere - that's a very heavy anchor for that weight of boat. We have a Discus which has a 15kg Delta which is a bit over specified for that. Is it therefore the Rocna that is good or the extra weight of anchor that is good? Just a thought
CaptainBob
Well-Known Member
15kg Rocna on a Tempest? Blimey I'm not suprised you didn't shift anywhere - that's a very heavy anchor for that weight of boat. We have a Discus which has a 15kg Delta which is a bit over specified for that. Is it therefore the Rocna that is good or the extra weight of anchor that is good? Just a thought
Yeah, I thought the same thing the first time I pulled it up
And you could be correct to a point. But it didn't drag _at all_ during setting, even with a lot of reverse, which is different from my experiences with a CQR.
Georgio
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I thought the same thing the first time I pulled it up
Couldn't agree more with regard to the difference to my old CQR. I happily put 1/4, 1/2 and then full reverse on having dropped my rocna 10 with no drag or worries apart from perhaps speeding up the rotation of the earth...
alan_d
Well-Known Member
A helpful post, but maybe not in the way intended. The bow roller looks identical to the one on my Konsort, and I had been ruminating about replacing my CQR with something newer. I have now crossed Rocna off the list of possible replacements.
srm
Well-Known Member
It looks impressive on the bow, but as its only been there for a couple of weeks, and I used the piers when in Fair Isle and Westray I have yet to use it.
My experience of changing from a CQR to a Bruce when the latter first came out - 35lb CQR to 15 kg Bruce on 29ft long keel sloop was similar to that described above. I had to drag the CQR quite a distance before it would take an initial hold, and hope it did not choke on an old kelp stem first, whereas the Bruce only needed a boats length or so. That was a genuine Bruce, I would not trust the various copies that are now available as they do not have the same geometry.
AncoraLatina
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not... They are other anchor manufacturers who specify a wind range... One example; Danforth is giving suggestion of anchors for winds up to 30 knots...
In our suggestion page; http://www.ancoralatina.com/acolhimento/ingles/selection_of_the_model/size selection.html
we give our size suggestion for 60 knots of wind... Well, they are some places in South America where it can be quite windy…
I’m always surprised to read comments such as Captainbob's ones.
For a "Westerly tempest" on our suggestion page, we are suggesting a RAYA 800 of 7,5 kg, and believe me this is far enough for this size of boat and 60 knots of wind..
You will be using an anchor twice heavier (15 kg)... and you will comment that the anchor works well ! ! ! Fortunately it works !!!.. :-(
I’m always surprise to read the comments of Rocna anchor’s users... and to compare them with INDEPENDANT test results...
Since its introduction on the market, the Rocna didn’t win any single test... In the last one done by the German Magazine YACHT, the Supreme anchor gave by far much better results.
I believe a good part of the positive comments about the Rocna is due to the fact that most users are using a largely oversized anchor...
João
mawm
Well-Known Member
This is a new challenge for Craig Smith. We need bow rollers that can handle the new generation anchors, ones that can be retro fitted to our older cruisers.
CaptainBob
Well-Known Member
I'd be more than happy to do an independent review of my Rocna 15 compared to your 7.5 RAYA 800. Can drop them in the same bottoms/depth and with the same chain length, and bang the boat in reverse to see what happens. Do you have a demo one somewhere in the UK you can get to me in Plymouth?
My test was most definitely independent
Yep, could be. But as I said - so far it has _always_ set _instantly_ which is not anything to do with the size of my boat, and which has implications for ease of deployment (not having to retry) and for peace of mind when your boat shifts around in the wind/tide/current.
CaptainBob
Well-Known Member
LOL, well, glad I could help
Was it because you couldn't do the same thing on your Konsort's pushpit - or because you're not keen on the arrangement?
craigsmith
Well-Known Member
CaptBob, you may find a peruse of the Rocna KB article on sizing to be informative:
www.rocna.com/kb/Rocna_sizing_recommendations
As to fit, the Rocna pattern is not particularly distinctive from the perspective of the bow-roller. It provides greater clearance than the Delta (compare the profile via the graphic on this page), for example, and other types tend to be similar in their geometry if they're designed to fit on the widest possible variety of boats. Over-sizing the anchor combined with a roller designed for an under-sized plough or claw is always likely to create complications. Those looking at new anchors but concerned about fit can either rely on money-back-guarantees from the retailers, or save a bit of hassle by e-mailing Rocna and asking for the full-scale side profile patterns which are available for each anchor size.
Your fitting solution looks workable. If at any point you decide to replace the bow-roller, keep this link in mind:
www.rocna.com/kb/Bow_roller_assembly_design
I'll not bother to feed Alain "João" Poiraud's troll, unless anyone else has specific queries.
www.rocna.com/kb/Rocna_sizing_recommendations
As to fit, the Rocna pattern is not particularly distinctive from the perspective of the bow-roller. It provides greater clearance than the Delta (compare the profile via the graphic on this page), for example, and other types tend to be similar in their geometry if they're designed to fit on the widest possible variety of boats. Over-sizing the anchor combined with a roller designed for an under-sized plough or claw is always likely to create complications. Those looking at new anchors but concerned about fit can either rely on money-back-guarantees from the retailers, or save a bit of hassle by e-mailing Rocna and asking for the full-scale side profile patterns which are available for each anchor size.
Your fitting solution looks workable. If at any point you decide to replace the bow-roller, keep this link in mind:
www.rocna.com/kb/Bow_roller_assembly_design
I'll not bother to feed Alain "João" Poiraud's troll, unless anyone else has specific queries.
srm
Well-Known Member
Oh dear, yet another manufacturer claiming that their product is better and therefore we can use a lighter anchor. That has been the marketing ploy for almost every anchor since the CQR in the 1940's. However, when you listen to people who use the anchors in real cruising situations (as opposed to marina based boats that only anchor in settled conditions) you find that the size carried creeps up based on experience.
The other point is that anchoring is a lottery, if the water is murky you don't know what type of bottom it will settle on. Also when cruising we may anchor in what appears setttled conditions only to have the wind veer 180 degrees putting a long fetch into the anchorage and increase until the anemometer needle is against the stops. In both of those conditions 'recomended' sizes are likely to prove inadequate.
I have no doubt that Robmcg's 15kg Delta is fine 98.45 % of the time. However if he were to venture onto the west or north coasts of Scotland he may feel more comfortable with a second anchor, or a bigger heavier one to penentrate weed. Just have a look at the size of Deltas the RNLI lifeboats carry.
Incidentally, my last 60kn plus anchoring experience was in the very sheltered Loch Moidart, in the small pool behind the island past the castle, landlocked and surrounded by trees in early August. In these conditions I use two anchors, my light one is usually regarded as over specified, plus engine in gear on a fast tick over (have to make sure it does not drive forward in any lulls)
Just a quick note to AncoraLatina - from the pics on your site it looks as if you copied the Spade / Oceane blade geometry, but modified the shank to look a bit different. Provided you havn't deviated significantly from the Spade concept you may have an almost equivalent anchor, so why not acknowledge your sources or specify how your developments improve on the original Oceane.
You may find that knocking the opposition is a counter productive marketing ploy in the UK.
The other point is that anchoring is a lottery, if the water is murky you don't know what type of bottom it will settle on. Also when cruising we may anchor in what appears setttled conditions only to have the wind veer 180 degrees putting a long fetch into the anchorage and increase until the anemometer needle is against the stops. In both of those conditions 'recomended' sizes are likely to prove inadequate.
I have no doubt that Robmcg's 15kg Delta is fine 98.45 % of the time. However if he were to venture onto the west or north coasts of Scotland he may feel more comfortable with a second anchor, or a bigger heavier one to penentrate weed. Just have a look at the size of Deltas the RNLI lifeboats carry.
Incidentally, my last 60kn plus anchoring experience was in the very sheltered Loch Moidart, in the small pool behind the island past the castle, landlocked and surrounded by trees in early August. In these conditions I use two anchors, my light one is usually regarded as over specified, plus engine in gear on a fast tick over (have to make sure it does not drive forward in any lulls)
Just a quick note to AncoraLatina - from the pics on your site it looks as if you copied the Spade / Oceane blade geometry, but modified the shank to look a bit different. Provided you havn't deviated significantly from the Spade concept you may have an almost equivalent anchor, so why not acknowledge your sources or specify how your developments improve on the original Oceane.
You may find that knocking the opposition is a counter productive marketing ploy in the UK.