sailorman
Well-Known Member
Have they spoilt your beach 
RNLI Lifeguards
- Thread starter sailorman
- Start date
nyx2k
Well-Known Member
they seemed to ruin all the beaches ive bee on this season.
i think they think they have some sort of legal powers to act like the police and get VERY upset when hyou dont jump high enough
i think they think they have some sort of legal powers to act like the police and get VERY upset when hyou dont jump high enough
SimbaDog
Well-Known Member
I've come across a few that make the gestapo seem benign! 
Boomshanka
Well-Known Member
Heard the RNLI CEO on Radio4 on the way home... whilst I deeply admire the RNLI... their beach safety 'tactics' did sound a bit 'Nanny state' A guy had been to a particular beach for over 30 years and never had a problem (it was also a truly desolate place by the sounds of it)... then yesterday he turns up to find RNLI beach hut, flags, 3 lifeguards, a quad bike with a klaxon and siren... running up and down the beach 'screaming' at him to get out fo the water as it wasn't safe... the guy had been doing the same at the same spot for thirty years!
A guy had been to a particular beach for over 30 years and never had a problem (it was also a truly desolate place by the sounds of it)... then yesterday he turns up to find RNLI beach hut, flags, 3 lifeguards, a quad bike with a klaxon and siren... running up and down the beach 'screaming' at him to get out fo the water as it wasn't safe... the guy had been doing the same at the same spot for thirty years!
pvb
Well-Known Member
Callous marketing exercise, I fear. Increases public's exposure to RNLI's "good works" at minimal cost.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Heard the RNLI CEO on Radio4 on the way home... whilst I deeply admire the RNLI... their beach safety 'tactics' did sound a bit 'Nanny state'
I am a "Life Governor"
but i believe them to be Empire Builders 
claymore
Well-Known Member
I listened to the radio 4 report as well.
I have always believed beach patrols ought to be the responsibility of the local authority - as they are in Blackpool - and not the RNLI. I do not feel that voluntary organisations, dependent upon goodwill for funds from people like myself should be undertaking this work as it diverts resources away from their primary objective - or have I missed the point?
I have always believed beach patrols ought to be the responsibility of the local authority - as they are in Blackpool - and not the RNLI. I do not feel that voluntary organisations, dependent upon goodwill for funds from people like myself should be undertaking this work as it diverts resources away from their primary objective - or have I missed the point?
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
I'd always assumed that the beach patrols like the ones featured on the BBC 1 TV programme were funded by the local council rather than donations to the RNLI and I certainly feel uneasy about funding this kind of operation through my subscriptions.
Boomshanka
Well-Known Member
For those interested... here's the bit on R4:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00t6s2m/PM_05_08_2010/
From 0:46:47 .... it's worth a listen
Here's the beach in question Freshwater West in Pembrokeshire.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00t6s2m/PM_05_08_2010/
From 0:46:47 .... it's worth a listen
Here's the beach in question Freshwater West in Pembrokeshire.
Boathook
Well-Known Member
I always knew the RNLI funded (totaly or part) the beach patrols and I assumed that it was to add 'value' to money given by beach users or the general public. As long as the lifeboats are always there I won't complain to much but Ido reserve the right to alter my views at short or no notice !!
binch
Well-Known Member
rnli
Once the RNLI was run by a retired seagoing officer and the whole "feel" was nautical.
Then they appointed a non-nautical civil servant chairman who has, in my opinion proved a disaster as the RNLI has lost its nautical ethos and has become a branch of the health and safety commission.
Add to that the prosperous period of our history has improved the RNLI funds position and (apart from building a fantastic headquarters building) they are looking for opportunities to diversify rather than improve their performance at sea. For instance, there is now a lifeboat based at Oulton Broad for inland water rescue which is a bit of a menace because enthusiasm outruns necessity. The fact is that serious life-saving for seafarers is now the province of the RN, MCA or RAF helicopter crews.
I did my bit for the RNLI in my younger days (both as crew and later as branch committee member) and I am so disillusioned that I no longer support them.
But do go on if you think differently to me.
Once the RNLI was run by a retired seagoing officer and the whole "feel" was nautical.
Then they appointed a non-nautical civil servant chairman who has, in my opinion proved a disaster as the RNLI has lost its nautical ethos and has become a branch of the health and safety commission.
Add to that the prosperous period of our history has improved the RNLI funds position and (apart from building a fantastic headquarters building) they are looking for opportunities to diversify rather than improve their performance at sea. For instance, there is now a lifeboat based at Oulton Broad for inland water rescue which is a bit of a menace because enthusiasm outruns necessity. The fact is that serious life-saving for seafarers is now the province of the RN, MCA or RAF helicopter crews.
I did my bit for the RNLI in my younger days (both as crew and later as branch committee member) and I am so disillusioned that I no longer support them.
But do go on if you think differently to me.
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
At least its a lifeboat and not PWCs, 4x4s, offices, etc which appear to form part of the RNLI lifeguard set ups on beaches. Initally I was unsure about setting up of lifeboat stations in the upper reaches of the tidal Thames but was greatful for their assistance when it was needed.
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
Freshwater West is the beach that I grew up next to... and still visit regularly. It is one of the most desolate places in Wales - and long may it be so. Absolutely no need for the RNLI to descend on it...
In the really busy places, RNLI beach lifeguards are a huge plus. They save us paging out CG teams for missing kids, etc which trust me is a huge drain on resources. In the early days I did have concerns about them trying to run the whole show, and only calling us in when things had gone so wrong as to be beyond a decent SAR response, but I'm happy to say that on our patch, the (few) places they operate have shown that not to happen.
BUT - contrast their beach lifeguards with the SNSM operation in France - yes they both are given cabins, which is fair enough, but the SNSM do not have the same plethora of bikes, pickups, flashing lights et al that the RNLI have.
Also remember that beach lifeguarding is a huge moneymaker for the RNLI - councils are charged for the service, often pushing previous free (and perfectly competent) surf life saving clubs out of the way in the rush for ever more officiousness.
Don't get me wrong - I'm ex lifeboat crew, and we work with them every day. But, I know from friends within the RNLI, there is a building resentment between the paid lifeguards and the volunteer LB crews.
Beach lifeguarding for the RNLI was, and is, a good idea - but it's not needed at anywhere near the scale it's now becoming.
In the really busy places, RNLI beach lifeguards are a huge plus. They save us paging out CG teams for missing kids, etc which trust me is a huge drain on resources. In the early days I did have concerns about them trying to run the whole show, and only calling us in when things had gone so wrong as to be beyond a decent SAR response, but I'm happy to say that on our patch, the (few) places they operate have shown that not to happen.
BUT - contrast their beach lifeguards with the SNSM operation in France - yes they both are given cabins, which is fair enough, but the SNSM do not have the same plethora of bikes, pickups, flashing lights et al that the RNLI have.
Also remember that beach lifeguarding is a huge moneymaker for the RNLI - councils are charged for the service, often pushing previous free (and perfectly competent) surf life saving clubs out of the way in the rush for ever more officiousness.
Don't get me wrong - I'm ex lifeboat crew, and we work with them every day. But, I know from friends within the RNLI, there is a building resentment between the paid lifeguards and the volunteer LB crews.
Beach lifeguarding for the RNLI was, and is, a good idea - but it's not needed at anywhere near the scale it's now becoming.
Searush
Well-Known Member
As a mere Shoreline member I get the impression that the Beach Rescue is part of their drive for a greater public presence. In other words seen as good publicity & therefore useful marketing. "We are there for everybody, not just rich Yotties & a handfull of commercial fishermen still in work".
They also add to the total of rescues/ lives saved & people recovered statistics that are used to measure effectiveness. Sadly, real effectiveness may be more about increasing public safety training & reducing the number of incidents - altho, to be fair, the lifeguards do a lot of that on the spot as well.
My mind is not yet made up about lifeguards - and I am hoping that the "Nanny State" attitude of officialdom (and some RNLI people) will diminish with the recent change of Govt. But we shall see.
They also add to the total of rescues/ lives saved & people recovered statistics that are used to measure effectiveness. Sadly, real effectiveness may be more about increasing public safety training & reducing the number of incidents - altho, to be fair, the lifeguards do a lot of that on the spot as well.
My mind is not yet made up about lifeguards - and I am hoping that the "Nanny State" attitude of officialdom (and some RNLI people) will diminish with the recent change of Govt. But we shall see.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Where I used to live as a teenager, lifeguard services were provided by local volunteers. And they were pretty good too, used to compete internationally, and didn't need RNLI involvement.
Last time I looked, the L in RNLI stood for Lifeboats, not Lifeguards?
Last time I looked, the L in RNLI stood for Lifeboats, not Lifeguards?
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
One of the reasons behind the original (smaller number of) beaches covered was that incident history showed a disproportionate number of the local ILB / AWB launches were to that particular beach, therefore the rationale of placing a summer unit at that beach drastically cut the far more expensive LB launches, as well as keeping assets clear for other taskings and not placing so much strain on crews. That, in my mind, worked.
The other reason for much of the RNLIs spending in new areas in recent years (college, new boat classes, station rebuilds and lifeguards) is they were warned a while back by the Charity Commissioners about the excessive level of reserve (cash) they were sitting on, and had to reduce that.
Given the third factor, which is that management at MCA / HMCG have all but given up on coastal safety as a priority, and the stage is set for the RNLIs expansion.
Interestingly, years ago an idea came up to move the then Coastguard HQ from London to co-locate with the RNLI at their new Poole HQ. The plan fell over as HMCG wouldn't cough up for a fire escape. I firmly believe had that happened, then we would now have a single Coastguard body running everything (including what the NCI now do) probably along the lines of the Australian voluntary coastguards. And, with hindsight and seeing what today's management are up to, what a wonderful thing that would have been.
The other reason for much of the RNLIs spending in new areas in recent years (college, new boat classes, station rebuilds and lifeguards) is they were warned a while back by the Charity Commissioners about the excessive level of reserve (cash) they were sitting on, and had to reduce that.
Given the third factor, which is that management at MCA / HMCG have all but given up on coastal safety as a priority, and the stage is set for the RNLIs expansion.
Interestingly, years ago an idea came up to move the then Coastguard HQ from London to co-locate with the RNLI at their new Poole HQ. The plan fell over as HMCG wouldn't cough up for a fire escape. I firmly believe had that happened, then we would now have a single Coastguard body running everything (including what the NCI now do) probably along the lines of the Australian voluntary coastguards. And, with hindsight and seeing what today's management are up to, what a wonderful thing that would have been.
PilotWolf
Well-Known Member
I believe that the local councils pay the RNLI for the beach lifeguard cover, but I maybe wrong...
W.
W.
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
My admiration for the volunteer RNLI crews knows no lmits but....
As I sail around Britain I am hugely re-assured that I am seldom far from a life boat station. Help is just a radio, a flare or even a phone call away.
I can tell you that my recent experience when I managed to hole the boat - on the rocks off Cromer for goodness sake ) and found myself pumping for ten or fifteen minutes every half hour really had me thinking.
If the diaphragm on my 45 year old bilge pump had given up the ghost then the water would soon be lapping up around the bottom of the engine. I would have been bailing with a bucket until help arrived.
However, the recent discussion of salaries at the top of what is ulimately a volunteer organisation has made me think in an entirely different way about the RNLI.
It starts to look like a rather top heavy edifice.
And before anyone wades in with facile arguments about monkeys and peanuts - well that is pretty offensive talk to people who do work for what some posters clearly consider to be peanuts.
How does a nurse, or a fireman or a teacher feel when their salaries are discribed as peanuts and by implication that they must be monkeys.
I wonder if any of the big cheeses on their £80,000 to £120,000 plus salaries are monitoring these discussions between ordinary sailors - genuine supporters of the RNLI - the sort of people who schlep around their neighbours clutching a collecting box or who have competed in regattas where part of the entry fee goes to the RNLI.
I wonder if the head honchos might start to think that they have a modest PR problem on their hands.
But I am a know nothing sailor.
Dylan
As I sail around Britain I am hugely re-assured that I am seldom far from a life boat station. Help is just a radio, a flare or even a phone call away.
I can tell you that my recent experience when I managed to hole the boat - on the rocks off Cromer for goodness sake ) and found myself pumping for ten or fifteen minutes every half hour really had me thinking.
If the diaphragm on my 45 year old bilge pump had given up the ghost then the water would soon be lapping up around the bottom of the engine. I would have been bailing with a bucket until help arrived.
However, the recent discussion of salaries at the top of what is ulimately a volunteer organisation has made me think in an entirely different way about the RNLI.
It starts to look like a rather top heavy edifice.
And before anyone wades in with facile arguments about monkeys and peanuts - well that is pretty offensive talk to people who do work for what some posters clearly consider to be peanuts.
How does a nurse, or a fireman or a teacher feel when their salaries are discribed as peanuts and by implication that they must be monkeys.
I wonder if any of the big cheeses on their £80,000 to £120,000 plus salaries are monitoring these discussions between ordinary sailors - genuine supporters of the RNLI - the sort of people who schlep around their neighbours clutching a collecting box or who have competed in regattas where part of the entry fee goes to the RNLI.
I wonder if the head honchos might start to think that they have a modest PR problem on their hands.
But I am a know nothing sailor.
Dylan
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
So far! You might like to look at the lifeboat map of Scotland before brining The Slug round Cape Wrath ...
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
far from lifeboats
so far so good though
cape wrath is the future - I might come into an inheritance or get a decent job and be able to buy a better boat, might chicken out and cut through the canal, might run out of money (most likely scenario).
Dylan
so far so good though
cape wrath is the future - I might come into an inheritance or get a decent job and be able to buy a better boat, might chicken out and cut through the canal, might run out of money (most likely scenario).
Dylan