Rival Bowman call in administrators

[charles_reed]

Yet another nail in the coffin of the UK marine industry.

I'm back for a few months and getting things for the boat fit-out, which is currently out of the water in Gelves and the Balkanisation of the industry is only too apparent.

First Cruisermart group - then So'wester-SL, now the yards are dropping.

I hope those of you who put down deposits on UK built yachts in the last few months did your credit checks thoroughly - if not call on the builders in person and put your monicker on all the bits of YOUR yacht so at least you can save something from the administrator, if he be called in.

And for the rest of you, don't expect fit-out to be a simple business of going down the chandlers and buying the bits you want, when you want.
My experience over the last 5 weeks is that I've ended up having to chase the manufacturers to get parts, frequently calling in old favours and even then deliveries of off-the-shelf bits is taking 4-6 weeks.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Huge shame

But I guess times are going to be hard for all boatbuilders over the next year or two. Boats are just about the most extreme example of discretionary spending, the spending that always takes a knock when the economic outlook is uncertain. For companies like Bowman, which rely on small numbers of expensive yachts, and have little scope for cost-cutting through higher volumes, it's difficult to see where else the businesses can go.

That said, when I tried to look at a Starlight at a boat show a couple of years back, it was guarded by about the most prospect-unfriendly sales (huh!) man I've ever met. Lack of professionalism doesn't help when times are good, let alone when they turn tough.

 

[Guest]

It's good to have you back Charles !

It seems the nature of things that British boatbuilders are going the same way as the motorcycle industry did despite trying very hard not to do so. The only growth area seems to be in the specialised area of racing where boats have a brief shelf life and yesterday's boat is no good for today. Similar perhaps to British car companies and Formula One.

 

[billmacfarlane]

Phew !!!!

I actually put a holding deposit on a Starlight 35 last summer , but withdrew it again at Christmas when they put the price up by approximately 15%. I thought at the time that the company wouldn't last as they were struggling to stay remotely competitive. I even had a dig at them in a letter to YM three months back. I actually took delivery of a new boat this week so if I went with the Starlight I might have had a real battle on my hands. At one level I'm relieved but I liked the company and their staff but they were in a very specialised market and I guess one that less people while admiring their products weren't prepared to dig deep into their pockets to buy choosing what they thought were better value for money boats.

 

[robp]

Agree with this Vic and what Bill says. I'm always banging on about this though.. Whilst they couldn't do anything about the value of Stirling, why do we not learn what the market wants, in the same way as many companies in mainland Europe? Yes, we want quality yachts like Starlights and Westerley but if they can't be sold because of massed produced competition and currency price, where's the contingency plan?

Understanding and accepting the market and producing efficiently. Why do the others do it?

Not only the motorcycle business but cars too. We only got Rover back by default. I guess that Rolls Royce, Chichester might benefit. Isn't that why they are there?

 

[charles_reed]

In fairness Vic, it's the sai; sector of ther UK boatbuilding industry which are so visibly failing.

Next to the States we probably have the most thriving powerboat sector in the world.

 

[charles_reed]

Rob - sorry I can't agree with you about quality being associated with Westerley.

For my money they epitomised what was wrong with the British boatbuilding industry - good components and designs, shoddily assembled and appallingly marketed, under incompetent management.

I've never owned a Westerly but I've sympathised with enough of their owners.

Tellingly, a very experienced boatyard worker in Spain commented to me that British yachts built before 1980 were the best - after that they lagged behind their other international competitors.

 

[Guest]

What a load of total tosh. If you've never had a Westerly (perhaps you should learn to spell) then you're hardly in a position to pontificate about them. I'd much rather be in my Oceanranger in any kind of sea than a Bavateau and after 8 years with virtually no problems she still looks as pristine (especially down below) as she did when she was launched.

 

[philip_stevens]

My '84 Konsort as well. Other than the hull colour going off, down below is as good as new. And the Bukh still goes donking along.

What problems were "Westerley" (sic) owners talking about?

regards,
Philip

 

[robp]

But I think we are coming from the same direction. The philosophy was to produce a quality yacht. They did this for years and had an enviable reputation. Maybe latterly, they had trouble with finish but that was probably to do with their struggle for survival. At the end of the day, as has been mentioned in the Trident Marine thread, it's management that has the responsibility for Marketing, R & D and Staff Training.

 

[zefender]

It does make me laugh all this traditional/die hard British industry stuff. Having wondered around these B. boards for a while now it is clear that there is the weirdest form of snobbery about non-british built boats (Swedish boats in this context are honourary British). The three largest (dare I say most successful?) operators (Bavaria, Jeanneau and Beneteau) get melded together as if they are the same boats (they are most definitely not) and given a 'put down' label of Ben/Jen/Bav. This is then followed by lots of nonsense about prefering to be caught in a blow in a Westerly, HR etc etc. Hundreds of these modern (euro) production boats have sailed the Atlantic - they are not flimsy big dinghies. Westerly went bust, suffered from osmosis problems due to poor production techniques. Can you imagine the schadenfreude of the brit brigade if the production boats suffered in the same way, to the same degree! Others have followed - not just boat builders but equipment suppliers and yards. For the workers of course, it is very sad. Having been a mere punter looking to buy (and probably prefering to buy British) I was really put off by the off-hand approach of many firms I met at shows. And the workmanship I saw was at best passable.

Let me come clean. This year I bought a new Bavaria 40. Yes, It was a compromise - any choice is. But I wanted to sail leisurely with my family as well as longer offshore trips with friends. The comfort and space of the Bavaria was in a different league and my family far preferred it. Yet it does sail very well too. All the deck gear is based on top notch brands and it has the kind of design in it that comes from modern volume production learning. For example, the wiring is first rate, not a taped-down afterthought. Yes, its true (shock horror) the cushions are velcro backed. I what will I do when these wear out? Why, I'll buy new Velcro strips for 50p.

The customer service before and after delivery has been very responsive. Six months on, I know I made the right choice. And six years on? I don't know and I don't care frankly.

The loss of established businesses is always sad. But the hard rule of business is that the customer is always king.

 

[Guest]

You say:

"This is then followed by lots of nonsense about prefering to be caught in a blow in a Westerly, HR etc etc."

"I bought a new Bavaria 40. Yes, It was a compromise - any choice is. But I wanted to sail leisurely with my family as well as longer offshore trips with friends."

Well which is it: a lot of nonsense about preferring to be caught in [a heavier design of boat] in a blow, or is the Bavaria a "compromise" more suitable than the other designs for sailing with family and friends???

Personally I would prefer to be in a heavier/longer keeled/less beamy design in a blow, but would not by any means regard the Bavaria as a death trap.

Also you say: "Hundreds of these modern (euro) production boats have sailed the Atlantic - they are not flimsy big dinghies".

Bear in mind that even small flimsy dinghies have sailed the Atlantic. And there is not necessarily anything magic about a boat crossing the Atlantic, especially via the trade winds route. Sometimes sailing in the Channel can be a more stringent test.

 

[zefender]

At the risk of getting into a debate about semantics, a compromise cannot be a choice between one thing or the other. If I opted for the more traditional heavier boat, I would have compromised speed, space, comfort, customer care and price. If I opted for the modern production, I would have compromised the length/disp ratio of a more traditional design which might (I would agree) have better all-weather capability. However, the cost would have meant that I would be forced to select a smaller model - getting me into bigger issues about shorter but heavier against longer but lighter.

Extremes apart, with a modest crew, there can be little doubt (cf Heavy Weather Sailing) that heavier displacement affords greater protection than lighter boats which generally need helming through a blow. So I wanted a boat for leisurely weerkend pottering with the family, accepting that I would probably need a different, fitter crew for offshore passages.

The real point I was making was that the brand name alone doesn't make it safe. Perhaps I should have said that I would prefer to be in a Bav 40 in a blow than a Westerly Pentland. But maybe this comment is likely to cause a storm of its own!!!

 

[Guest]

I wouldn\'t disagree with that NT

NT