RIVAL 32 vs 34 performance

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neilandshiv

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Hi

We are thinking of buying a Rival but can't decide between a 32 and 34, in terms of how they sail. Sail/Displacement ratio's are about 12.95 vs 17.19, from which one would gather that the 34 is quite a bit quicker.

We have heard comments varying from "not much difference" to "the difference isn't worth the extra cost" to "the 34 is about 1 knot faster all round".

Does anyone out have anything they could contribute to help us with the decision.

Many thanks

Neil and Shiv
PS If anyone could offer us a sail on either we would be very grateful
 
The deep keel version of the 34 is a little quicker than the R32 but more importantly, it can also point into the wind a little better too. The shallow keel R34 should perform a little better than the 32 but I would suggest that the age of the sails and sail trimming will also have a bearing as will the amount of growth on the hull. The R34's tend to be younger and hence may have more modern equipment but some R32's have had electronics & engine upgrades. Price for an R34 tend to be 25-40% more than a R32. You have probably found the for sale board on the rival owners association web site - this should give you a good indication of prices and specification.
Both boats are very seaworthy and solidly built
 
Thanks for the reply Moonfire. If we go R34 it would it be the shallower draft version. ROA site has very usefull info, as you say.
From tank tests it says R34 has 6% less resistance compared to R32, so that would be 0.3kn at 5kn. When you say R34 would perform a little better then R32 are you thinking in these sorts of terms given similar, hull growth, sail trim/condition etc.
LWL and therefore hull speeds are almost the same, so do you think better sail/displacement ratio just makes R34 bit better in lighter airs
 
Don't forget the 9inches of work surface forward of the cooker!
Seriously - agree on accommodation front not worth the extra

Just the sail/displacement ratio's that bother me a bit. 12.94 is at motor sail end and 17.19 is higher than many respectably quick cruises - eg Fulmar and Albin Balard.

(Before I upset R32 owners/fans I'm not suggesting it sails in any way like a motor sailor - as there is obviosly more to it than the stats)
 
Yes it is the tank test figures I had in mind. Where did you get the sail/displacement figures from? The displacement figure for the R34 is only slightly higher than the R32 and I thought they had the same mast height (a R34 owner may correct me!) so the sail/displacement ratio should be pretty similar.
One thing I should have added before - the cockpit on a R32 is roomy with 2 in it and gets somewhat cosy with 4 in it - the enlarged cockpit space of the 34 should be considered a benefit if you often sail 4 or more up.
 
If I remember correctly, the 34 is not just a 32 hull with 2 feet extra added to the stern above the waterline, but the underwater body was redesigned and modified. The ROA site has a good section on the design history of the Rivals. And of course, as the boat heels, and a Rival heels quite soon, the extra length comes into play as well.
I have a shallow version of the 34 and I can confirm that the deep keel points a little higher. But it is my experience that quality and cut of the sails and careful trimming are much more important factors in achieving the boat's full potential.
I do not know how important this is for you, but the cockpit of the 34 is quite a bit roomier than the 32, and there is much more locker space.
Finally, there is the row away factor. The 34 is by far the prettiest of the Rival family. But then I would say that, wouldn't I...
 
[ QUOTE ]
...... so do you think better sail/displacement ratio just makes R34 bit better in lighter airs

[/ QUOTE ]
Better in this case would be very relative. I have sailed a number of R34's, they are great boats but light air sailing is not really a strength.
 
Hello again
Figures we have found are "Disp/SA = Ratio" are
R32 11200 / 405 = 12.94
R34 11900 / 560 = 17.19
Figures from http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html
not sure how reliable but friends with Fulmar reckon stuff on this site is about right. Don't understand exactly where the final ratio figure comes from!
Also have seen alternative displacement figure for R32 of 11650, but this would make ratio worse.
Please advise if figures above are a load of rubbish!

It's the sail area difference that has max effect on ratio - I don't understand it especially as you say mast heights the same. Hope R34 owner comes in here!

Cockpit not an issue - i'm 5ft6in and Shiv is 5ft1in so R32 is plenty big enough 95% of our sailing will be the 2 of us, with occasional friends/family for day trips.

Thanks for you help - please keep replying
 
Hi Johan
Thanks for the input - yes ROA site says that - 6% less resistance dues to the change in rear sections. But what does this mean in real terms. Will a R34 do 6kn when a R32 is doing 5 (all other things being equal) or is it 0.3 the difference?
Can you define "a little higher" 5 degrees - 10 degrees ???
As you own a R34 can you give us some idea of boat speed for wind speed in flat and choppy waters?
Also appreciate sail trim - friends make fun of me as i'm always tweeking sails but I'm happy as I see boat speed increase after I start playing - must come from dinghy racing background.
Row away - but then all Rivals are v pretty compared many other plastics. And how much time to you spend sailing her compared to looking at her on the way back from the mooring
cheers
Neil
 
Hello Ken
Appreciate Rivals not a light airs boat but is R34 better in light airs than R32.
Would R34 be reaching at 2kn in 7kn and R32 going at 1kn
Would R34 be upwind at 3kn in 7kn and R32 going at 1.5kn
In what wind strenght does a R34/32 drop below 3kn etc etc??
Not having been able to sail these boats I am tying to get a quantitative feel of relative performance.
As you have sailed R34's your input would be very helpful.
Thanks in advance
Neil
 
I found an original document giving R32 sail details:
all in sq feet
Main 180 ex roach
working jib 139
no 1 Genoa 333
No 2 Genoa 226
Cruising Gen 302
Spin 680

Hence main + cruising gen = 482
main + No 1 gen = 513
the only way I can get to your value of 405 is main + no 2 genny

From the good yacht guide the mast height of a R32 is 24'6", and an R34 24'10". They also list an R32 as having a sail area of 405-489 sq ft (pretty much agreeing with the figures above) and give a single figure for the R34 of 443 sq ft - bang in the middle of the R32 range.
- I have doubts about the data you derived from the web site
 
"- I have doubts about the data you derived from the web site"
So do I now I've seen your numbers.

With sail area's you quote can see how R32 and R34 would have similar performance.
Have checked numbers on web site I quoted and it requires 100% Fore triangle. Looks like someone has input No1 Genoa for R34 and as you say No2 for R32. Hence the large difference in sail/displacement that was bothering me.
Using consistent genoa areas gives a ratios less than 1 apart for the two boats.

Many thanks for your help on this.
Hope we wil be joining the ranks of Rival owners soon
good sailing
neil
 
Hi, as the (now ex) ROA webmaster for 6 or seven years can I just point out that the data has come from many sources and should be used only as a guide. I can however confirm the tank testing made very minor changes to the underwater sections of the R34 hull, but I have sailed my R32 in company with shallow draft R34's on MANY occasions honestly dont think there is a real difference. They both have the same rig and keel etc, the extra displacement comes purely from the additional two feet. The extra cockpit space is nice to have on the 34. At the end of the day you pays yer money ....... I have had mine for 15 years and over 40,000 nm. Light winds are sometimes frustrating but they really come into there own as conditions worsen. Fantastic sea boat. PM me if you want any further info .......
 
I had a 32, "Tryval" for quite a few years, and sailed her many miles to places between St Kilda and Sardinia.
1. I'm sure the 34 should perform better, in theory, I suspect the difference would be hard to detect.
2. IMHO the 34 looks "stretched" and not as pretty as the 32.
3. The significant difference in price does not reflect in added accom or performance.
I have a Nic 32 Mk X1 now, much bigger in volume, but I miss the performance of the R32.
 
I agree that the actual performance differences between the R32 and the two keel variants of the R34 are marginal, the quality of the rig, condition of the antifoul and ability of the helm swamping the design differences. I would say that 0.3kt average is about right - but I added another 0.3-0.5 by fitting a Bruntons Autoprop to my deep draught R34. This summer, I averaged 7.0-7.2kts SOG on a reach in the tideless Baltic in F5-6 and 1-1.5 metre seas, over four separate 30 minute periods.

Both yachts can be trimmed to sail themselves but the directional stability of the R34 is usefully better. The deep keel version is much stiffer (it has lead ballast instead of cast iron as well as the extra draught) and so will carry its sail area for longer before needing to reef. The traditional V-shaped hull repays being sailed upright - reef and go half a knot faster than before!

The R34's different underwater profile, as well as improving performance, also adds a little more volume to the hull in the galley/nav area. Its higher sheerline gives more space in the forecabin under a slightly raised deck. The coachroof is slightly longer, which adds a few inches fore-aft in the galley and heads especially. These dimensional differences are not much - both R32 and R34 are small inside by modern standards for their LOAs - but they do make life on the R34 slightly more comfortable.

The average R32 hull (built 1970-79) is older than the average R34 (1972-85) and most R32s were completed by amateurs after the introduction of the R34. These factors have some effect on price, and yachts fully completed by Southern Boatbuilding Co (later renamed Rival Yachts) command a premium but these days price depends more on the extent of updating and general condition.

Queries can be posted on the Rival Owners Association website by non-members if they contact the Webmaster, where you might get a wider range of well-informed comments.

Good luck with your search!
 
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