Right Of Reply

[Shakey]

Last night I responded to a post by a new forumite, ensaglare.

I have nothing against ensaglare, but his request for information that could save him a considerable sum of money came across as a little demanding and brusque to say the least.

I, perhaps somewhat brusquely too, suggested he might want to use the word 'please' somewhere in his request. Within minutes he had replied, said sorry and added please. With no malice towards the guy, I suggested he posted on Liveaboard Link (where he might find advice from people who had already been in his situation).

I have recently read the replies to that post. I am somewhat bemused and annoyed to find myself being branded a xenophobe and rude, and bold claims that the original post included the word 'please' when it clearly shows as been edited, and ensaglare even states so further down the page!

I do not understand how it can be considered rude to ask for some basic manners to be shown on the forum. I do not understand how I am a xenophobe when I responded courteously and offered some advice to the bloke anyway.

To those members who were so keen to base their criticisms on their incorrect judgement, I now ask the question:

How keen are you to apologise?

 

[BrendanS]

You were out of order with your response. I don't claim to be without fault, several have pointed out that I'm the grumpy git of the forum, but I will apologise when I think I've been at fault. ensaglare's request was quite reasonable, and edited the post to conform to your request for a 'please' and I thought held up his end quite well

 

[Lizzie_B]

We are all grumpy old gits at times. I am also a Luddite and still find difficulty with all the gubbins and indicators on this new fangled site! So I apologise unreservedly. Technophobe as opposed to Xenophobe, that's me!!

 

[Shakey]

My point is not that ensaglare was at fault as such; he did edit his post and thanked everyone for their advice, and that does him credit.

My point is that several forumites chose fit to pass very public judgement on me based on incorrect evidence.

 

[Shakey]

Thank you Lizzie!

Best wishes,

Shakey.

 

[paulrossall]

Shakey
Don't get too upset about this. We all make mistakes and those that got stuck into you had not realised what had happened. Others should have realised that a Yorkshireman is normally right.
My football team have just beaten Arsenal so I am a Happy Sailor tonight and could not take offense no matter what anyone says.........and I'm off to bed anyway.
Goodnight all. paul

 

[Stingo]

Shaky, you could have avoided all this flak simply by editing your post once ensaglare had edited his.

All in my humble opinion of course.

 

[boatmike]

Ere! I object to you usurping my position as the G.O.G. of the forum. You are a mere slip of a lad and still have all your hair. Geez you are not even old! Everyone knows I am the forums official Victor Meldrew and dont you forget it you cheeky sod. And I didn't see one please or thank you in your post either. I demand an apology!!!

 

[snowleopard]

there has been a rash of these flamings of newbies lately, by various regulars.

i find some postings rude, i grit my teeth at appalling spelling and grammar, i'm bored by banal attempts at humour and seethe when it kills an interesting or useful thread.

i cope with all these by ignoring them. the only time i will react is when someone is being deliberately offensive to me or others. i came very close to wading in on that particular thread.

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[tcm]

The main problem as I see it is that the forum is entirely ethereal, never physical. It would be much better if there was a button called "Outside, NOW!" and a cab would take you to a predetermined spot for an actual punchup. This would definitely resolve things, instead of letting them fester.

 

[BrendanS]

Oh all right then. You are older and more hairless than me, and I apologise for giving the impression otherwise. I'm still grumpier than you though, and have a thread in my honour to prove I'm a crabbit git!

PS, I gave Richard Wilson training before he took on that role!

 

[PerL]

Shakey,
I too have a problem with using "please" simply because in Swedish (which is what I assume Enseglare is as well) that particular little word isn't used half as much as in English. While I think we non-native english speakers should try our best to be as polite as is required, I also think some slack should be allowed under the circumstances.

While we're on the subject of rudeness, was there a particular reason you changed his name from Enseglare (= a sailor) to Ensaglare (= a spitter)? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif


IMHO, please, danke, dankie, tack, AUB, SVP etc.
Per

EDIT:
Forgot to add that this is in no way a criticism against you or anyone else. I just realise that my posts could also come across as somewhat lacking in the please department and I wanted to provide a cultural background.

 

[alex_rogers]

You are right to say that some basic manners should be shown on the Forum. However, perhaps those manners should also extend to showing some generosity to new posters and accepting that some peoples use of grammer and language may give an impression that was not intended.

In the spirit of this show of good manners, perhaps we can all accept that Shakey's response was intended to be 'courteous and good natured' rather than the grumpy, cynical attack on a new poster that it appeared to be.

 

[tcm]

How to appear rude.

"I am male. I live in London. Boat in UK. I plan to take it to med. "

I think the above was the style of ensaglare's orginal post, and unfortunately you saw the short sharp sentences as fast, rude, and even (your word) bombastic. If, for example, a longer sentence is used, the readers is forced to assimilate and read more slowly, as with this sentence, or....

I am male, live in london with a boat in the UK and plan to take it to the med.

All one sentence it reads very nicely?

So!

1) If anyone wants to write rude attacking letters, use short sentences.

2) Perhaps "soften" text by connecting together sewntneces with conjunctions.

3) Consider using "perhaps" and "consider"and smileys reasonably freely to indicate a pleasant response or to soften the "do this" imperative. Smileys can do the same, but less effectively.

4) try not to "read" the mood of a poster - but if you checkem as you did and they back off at the first check, you should really say no hard feelings er...which you did.

5) in ensaglares example, he was using short sentences for fast "cut and dried" transmission of info. Praps he shd have considered using numbered lists for this.

6) Longstanding poster know all the above, AND in many cases have tripped up on some or all the above. The best route is to actually meet a poster in person. That way you get to realise how awful/pleasant they are, and can then rip into them with conviction

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[tcm]

E-punchup

This is brilliant, brian. I think a few more details might be needed with checkboxes for "i know where you live" and so on, but essentially the idea is very sound.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: E-punchup

Happy, happy, happy, happy thoughts..... thats the place I like to be..... If you would like to be there too........ lah lah lah lah

Cheer up everyone.... lifes full of happy people, grumpy people, excited people, dull people...... and would be very very boring if we were all the same.......

Just carry on being yourself...... if someone is so insecure to be mortally offended by a post being flamed, then they are going to struggle on this board anyway........IMHO for what its worth...

PS. Up yours to each and all......(that should keep Claymore happy!)

 

[aitchw]

C'mon guys and gals, everyone who frequents forums on a regular basis knows perfectly well that that the mood and tone of a post is notoriously difficult to guage and it is always wise to be tolerant.

Except in very few cases contributors have never met, know nothing of each other except what is shown in bios and have no idea of the background of individual forumites.

To make instant judgements and react to them is not in the spirit of these, best on the web, sailing forums.

 

[Danny_Labrador]

I watched it all unfold yesterday and if this helps – its all too easy in text to make mistakes in terms of emphasis – if it was a verbal conversation then having said something in one sentence that on listening to it sounded a little brusque then the next utterance could correct it.
I have two dogs and whilst individually they are perfect models of canine good behaviour and manners - together sometimes I have observed conduct that is a little scary. I believe they call it pack instinct and perhaps we all possess it – pile in on someone once one individual makes a start.
There is always someone then who decides to add a little additional flavour to the admonishments with an altogether extraneous insult that probably hikes back to some previous wounding – and that’s another score settled - as they see it.
Funny things human….. and dogs !