Right anchor?

[mikemcgregor]

I have a bruce anchor fitted to my 34 ft motor cruiser. I am experiencing difficulty in holding/setting it when trying to anchor in bays around Empuriabrava in spain as mostly the bottom is covered in that long sea grass. I am thinking of changing it to a plough type .... CQR or Delta so that the pointed end will penetrate the weed. Is this the best solution?

 

[craigsmith]

Not quite... although I may be biased. Of the types you mention the Delta would be the best but not significantly better than a Bruce... it is still not good in grass or weed.

Read the recent testing by SAIL and Yachting Monthly (see results on our website).

On weed/grass, try the opinions here and here... sorry for the promotion but this is independent material.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mike this is exactly the same problem that I had with a Bruce anchor in SoF and Balearics. It just won't cut through the weed to the sea bed below. If it does get a bite, then it holds well but too often it just skids on the surface
I decided to change my Bruce anchor a couple of seasons ago. Firstly, I looked around the local marinas to see what other people had and I saw a preponderance of plough type anchors like the CQR, Delta and Bugel designs. Then I took measurements of my existing bow roller arrangment because I did'nt want to change that and then looked at the dimensions of the biggest plough type anchors that would still fit in the existing bow roller. I dismissed the CQR because the Delta is supposed to be a replacement for the CQR even though it looks quite different. It came down to a choice between the Delta and the Rocna and in the end I went for the Delta because it's slightly narrower shank allowed me to fit a larger size than the Rocna
I also decided to upgrade the chain. Again I did'nt want to change the winch so I looked up the specs of the existing anchor winch and specified the largest possible chain that could be used. This meant changing the gypsy but that was relatively cheap
I've gone from a 15kg Bruce to a 25kg Delta and from 8mm to 10mm chain and it's made a big difference. The boat has'nt dragged once since the change although I'm still careful to set the anchor and I'm now confident enough to use a shorter chain scope if I have to in a crowded anchorage
If you use your anchor regularly, as we do, then an upgrade is well worthwile. However, it does irritate me that manufacturers sell boats costing hundreds of thousands of squids and penny pinch on the anchor and chain type and size

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I don't agree with that Craig. I have found the Delta significantly better in Med weed/sand than the Bruce

 

[craigsmith]

Fine... it is better... just not that much. Sand, yes, weed, no. (And are we talking about the long sea grass of the thread-starter... not patches of short grass on sand).

People frequently complain about Deltas and weed - including the designer of the Rocna, who got fed up with his own, and, well, designed you-know-what.

I would attribute your impressions to the fact that you've nearly doubled the weight involved, as well as switching to a better type.

 

[craigsmith]

By the way, I would expect a 25kg Delta to hold (once set) roughly 3-4 times that of a 15Kg Bruce! If you tested them the numbers would look something like that.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I thought you'd say that, Craig and, yes, you're probably right but I also have experience with my previous boat which had a 20kg Bruce with 10mm chain. My existing boat, which is heavier than my previous one, performs better in the same anchorages with a 25kg Delta/10mm chain set up than my previous boat so I am pretty much convinced that the Delta performs better than the equivalent Bruce in typical Med conditions which include both grass covered and weed covered bottoms
Btw I wanted to buy the Rocna rather than the Delta and you probably won't remember but we had an informative exchange of e-mails. Unfortunately the narrower shank of the 25kg Delta meant it would fit in my existing bow roller whereas the 25kg Rocna would'nt. Shame because I was convinced by your sales talk /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[craigsmith]

I do remember.
I'm just itching for an opportunity to tell you how many times more a Rocna would hold, and what size Rocna you could be using as equivalent to a 25Kg Delta - don't give it to me though, I'll get in trouble with the Luddites who'll no doubt be along shortly!

Glad to hear you're happy with your Delta. It is definitely far superior to anything else available when it was released in the early 90s... it's what we chose and used from the UK all the way to NZ. It's depressing that it still doesn't seem to have displaced CQR and Bruce types, though. Possibly because the cheap copies of those types are so prevalent.

As you say, boat-builders don't help... but then you can't blame them, they only respond to demand. We recently tried to talk a well-known luxury motor boat builder into using stainless Rocnas on their boats. This is a supposedly top quality brand, best of everything, first class, etc. They replied that the Chinese-built Bruce knock-offs they currently use cost less than we can buy the steel for (more recycled Honda Civic dashboards than actual steel if you see what I mean) - and the fact that the anchors fold up under any real load, or rust apart within a year, doesn't matter because the clients just don't care at the time of purchase.

 

[mikemcgregor]

I love this forum...you get some many useful replies to questions. Thanks Craig and Mike. Most of the anchoring I do is just for the day not all night. I am moving towards the Delta and following your advice Mike I will check current bow roller and chain size and perhaps get a heavier hook.

 

[craigsmith]

Argh... what am I doing wrong... /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

[ QUOTE ]
As you say, boat-builders don't help... but then you can't blame them, they only respond to demand. We recently tried to talk a well-known luxury motor boat builder into using stainless Rocnas on their boats. This is a supposedly top quality brand, best of everything, first class, etc. They replied that the Chinese-built Bruce knock-offs they currently use cost less than we can buy the steel for (more recycled Honda Civic dashboards than actual steel if you see what I mean) - and the fact that the anchors fold up under any real load, or rust apart within a year, doesn't matter because the clients just don't care at the time of purchase.


[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, I think that's outrageous and short sighted. In today's litigious society, some owners might think about taking the dealer/manufacturer to court if their new boat dragged it's standard fit Chinese anchor onto the rocks. In any case, I'm sure there are many potential buyers like me who look at the mooring gear on a boat and make a judgement on the overall quality of the boat based on the quality of the mooring gear on the basis that, if a builder is not willing to cut corners on the mooring gear, then he probably won't cut corners elsewhere. In any case with ever more crowded and expensive marinas, IMHO more boaters are spending nights on the hook these days rather than get ripped off

 

[craigsmith]

I agree - but I'm not sure the boat builders are that concerned. It's possible to get classification (e.g. Lloyds) for most anchors, and that would probably cover the builder against any claims of negligence. (Most of the people that buy the boats I mentioned above are not affected by your point - they can easily afford to stay in marinas, and the fact that the anchors don't get used much is probably a factor.)

***

I just couldn't resist this:

(Delta 36lb vs Rocna 32lb extracted from SAIL write-up of West Marine testing)

West Marine's comments:
Delta: "Variable results ranging from around 1,500lb. to 4,500lb. Drags at limit."
Rocna: "Superb, consistent performance. Held a minimum of 4,500lb and engaged immediately."

I know it's only one test, but, you know /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[tico]

cue 'hylas' /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[duncan]

you are not doing a lot wrong Craig!

the shallow bay's jus tto the north of Empuriabrava generally have the shorter grass over sand - especially the area next to the resteraunt on the rocks.............from pleasant memories.

this was the first and only area that continually caused my bruce to fail as the grass folds over the cutting blade and it never digs in properly (obviously it wouldn't handle long weed either!). Delta (or any plough really) would be better but the Rocna/spade etc would be better still..... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

No, you could'nt resist it. Still we like peeps who are enthusiastic about their product /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MedDreamer]

You could bring the price down /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[CaptainMike1970]

You could get a copy of the May 2007 back issue of MBM and read their anchor test. We never had a problem with our old Fortress, the Delta on the new boat does not seem to bite as well.

 

[blueglass]

i must have a charmed life with my 15kg bruce on 10mm chain. (38 footer) Just returned from s of F having spent many a night at anchor, including on long weed and no problems. Only once did I have to do a second drop, every other time it set first time and held. On one occasion having hooked in immediately without problems, I watched the next 2 yachties nearby struggle to get a hold and one gave up and went elsewhere. They had delta types too. guess its the luck of the draw. This is my second boat with a bruce and personally wouldn't have anything else.