Rigging the strorm jib

dougg

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A proper removable inner forestay is going to cost me about a grand fitted. A lot of money for something i dont intend to use, you could say the same thing for a life raft.
Im thinking of fitting a big u bolt to the stem head.
Getting a lenght of 8mm s/s wire made up with a loop on each end about 200mm longer than the storm jib.
Streching out the wire between say 2 tow bars and ritting the storm jib to it, tensioning it up at the foot with some smallish dynema cord.
This i would shackle to the ubolt and raise with a dynema hallyard.
The storm jib would be packed away in its bag attached to the wire.

Is this going to be satisfactory?
 

sarabande

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using the stem head under storm conditions might be a bit difficult. It is more practical to have the tack of the storm jib set back from the stem; this makes it easier to set up, and also keeps the CofE of the sail nearer to the CLR of the boat so that you don't get such large yawing moments.


Positioning the tack back towards the mast also needs the halyard to be set lower than the mast head - perhaps using a spinnaker pole uphaul.


I'd be tempted to set the foot of the jib higher than 200mm off the deck, to avoid heavy seas hitting the sail foot.


In general, incorporating the wire luff in the sail seems reasonable to me, but were you thinking of setting it without any hanks ? That will need quite a lot of tension in the halyard.
 

EuanMcKenzie

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thought

I toyed with the idea for a while but it looks very complicated

I have an old hank on which has been unused since the boat got roller reefing

i do mostly inshore sailing so decided just to get a luff rope added so i can pull it up teh roller and use it that way.

means a sail change but I plan to use it as a sail occasionally when its windy now because I can!
 

dougg

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Thanks. I take your point about the 200mm.

The yacht is 42 ft how far above the deck do you think 500mm?

Im having a whisker pole fitted soon and, if my wire set up is a goer, was going to have the pole uphaul made of dynema so it could be used for the storm jib.

The storm jib i have has wire clip type hanks to fit onto the wire. (not sure what they are called!)
 

Ubergeekian

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The storm jib i have has wire clip type hanks to fit onto the wire. (not sure what they are called!)

Piston hanks?

11838794.jpg
 

sarabande

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chances are that you are going to be heeling quite a bit if the storm jib is set, so I would lift the foot high enough to be out of the wind shadow of the windward rail. Perhaps even a metre ? I have been sitting by the mast of a slightly bigger boat, and have been well underwater when we surged into the back of a preceding wave because we were hammering along.

My only view on the use of dyneema is to make sure that the inner edge of the hanks is smooth, and with no sharp edges to cut into the fibres or the cover. I think I would prefer wire as the stay, but I am not very familiar with the performance characteristics of dyneema in relation to abrasion.
 

Wansworth

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The obvious problem with storm jibs is that when its time to use them its probably dicy on the fore deck.There probably is no proper effective way to set a storm jib except on an inner forstay well tensioned etc.On passage a storm jib can be stowed ready for use.A mate of mine has a n inner forestay set about a foot down from the mast head so avoiding some form of backstay,On deck he has a senhouse slip with a bottle screw ,this in turn is stayed down to the centre line.Once he is on passage he sets the stay and jib up and is ready for any event.Tensioning wire stays without bottlescrews and ridged points of attachment ill end in disappointment....I have tried it.
 

simonfraser

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The obvious problem with storm jibs is that when its time to use them its probably dicy on the fore deck.There probably is no proper effective way to set a storm jib except on an inner forstay well tensioned etc.On passage a storm jib can be stowed ready for use.A mate of mine has a n inner forestay set about a foot down from the mast head so avoiding some form of backstay,On deck he has a senhouse slip with a bottle screw ,this in turn is stayed down to the centre line.Once he is on passage he sets the stay and jib up and is ready for any event.Tensioning wire stays without bottlescrews and ridged points of attachment ill end in disappointment....I have tried it.

+1

i removed mine, had a lever to tension it up, no way i'd go out on the deck in a decent blow to set it up. have had a flatter genoa cut.
if you coastal sail and watch the forcast you're unlikely to be caught out to need a storm jib . . . .
 

jwilson

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A proper removable inner forestay is going to cost me about a grand fitted. A lot of money for something i dont intend to use, you could say the same thing for a life raft.
Im thinking of fitting a big u bolt to the stem head.
Getting a lenght of 8mm s/s wire made up with a loop on each end about 200mm longer than the storm jib.
Streching out the wire between say 2 tow bars and ritting the storm jib to it, tensioning it up at the foot with some smallish dynema cord.
This i would shackle to the ubolt and raise with a dynema hallyard.
The storm jib would be packed away in its bag attached to the wire.

Is this going to be satisfactory?

As long as the wire is adequately tensioned BEFORE the sail is hoisted, and rigging it is not too complex, what you suggest seems to make sense, though I'm not sure what you mean by "tow bars".

On a 42-footer you should have the foot of the storm jib very well up from the deck - at least 1000 - 1500 mm. There might not be much wrong with 2 metres up to the tack. If ever used, it will probably be the only sail set, and high is good, away from heavy, fast moving, tons of water.

Many people say a storm jib should be set back from the stemhead, to balance the rig, but in the conditions in which it is likely to be used, you'll probably be heeled 20 plus degrees just with a bare mast. Going to windward the storm jib will heel you even more and the resultant weather helm will be balanced by the far-forward sail area. Off wind the further forward the sail the better.
 

dougg

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My only view on the use of dyneema is to make sure that the inner edge of the hanks is smooth, and with no sharp edges to cut into the fibres or the cover. I think I would prefer wire as the stay, but I am not very familiar with the performance characteristics of dyneema in relation to abrasion.[/QUOTE]

The hanks will be on the wire which will have a loop at the top, the halyard will not come into contact with the hanks.
 

dougg

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though I'm not sure what you mean by "tow bars".

I would need to tension the wire then fit the sail to it to make sure when the wire was hoisted the sail was tight.

I was suggesting a method of holding the wire tight would be between two tow bars on a couple of cars or something similar.
 

tobble

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but unless you can drive one car up your mast and keep the other on the foredeck, in a F7+ that won't help. You need to be able to apply tension in situ, and you can't get around that.

I looked into this and there isn't a bodge you can rely on - and if you need a storm job, you want to be sure it's not going to let you down...

When I had the standing rigging replaced, I got the rigger to keep on of the old stays, he put a fitting near the mast head, I put a very strong point on the foredeck, and it's tensioned using a big strong lewmar 4:1 tackle (acquired at boat jumble) with 8mm dyneema line. My rigger reckons this is as good for tensioning as a highfield lever, and is cheaper and lighter. Think it was about 20 quid for the mast fitting, same for the blocks, few quid for off cut of dyneema, tenner for the big chunky eye off ebay. I put in a thick bit of stainless angle to reinforce the deck-bulkhead join, cost less than a tenner from metal stockist.
 

Salty John

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I suspect these inner forestay arrangements (particularly the more Heath Robinson versions) are rarely used. I bet most people just try to use a fully or almost fully rolled headsail rather than risk a trip forward. After all, when you need a storm jib is just the time you really, really don’t want to go forward!

Boats with small mains and big jibs are particularly disadvantaged because these large sails are useless when rolled radically. A boat that relies less on a big foresail will already have a smaller jib on the roller furling gear so the set will be better.

Big roller furling headsails are a nightmare when the weather deteriorates. You need to have a heavier working jib sized sail that can replace the genoa before things get bad and the foredeck is still workable. At least then you can get a decent sail shape when rolled to storm jib size.

I think manufacturers should work on roller furling gear that provides more user friendly sail changing. Then people will be less tempted to try to make one sail fit all circumstances.
 

ghostlymoron

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Its good advice to reef early and this includes rigging a storm jib. If you leave it till conditions are desperate you are going to put your crew in danger. If you reef and rig storm jib and it proves unnecessary they will no doubt moan about extra sail changes but at least you will not be carrying out MOB manouvres to pick them up.
I agree with the previous poster who said you need to be able to have full confidence in your rig so a lash up is not a good idea.
 

charles_reed

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A proper removable inner forestay is going to cost me about a grand fitted. A lot of money for something i dont intend to use, you could say the same thing for a life raft.
Im thinking of fitting a big u bolt to the stem head.
Getting a lenght of 8mm s/s wire made up with a loop on each end about 200mm longer than the storm jib.
Streching out the wire between say 2 tow bars and ritting the storm jib to it, tensioning it up at the foot with some smallish dynema cord.
This i would shackle to the ubolt and raise with a dynema hallyard.
The storm jib would be packed away in its bag attached to the wire.

Is this going to be satisfactory?
I bought a storm jib just after buying the boat - it's been used once and proved larger than desirable for windward work in >35 knots.

Far superior, I've found, is my 65% yankee jib on the roller reefer, I can roll it down smaller and it's far better than the genoa for windward work in anything above F3.

So I'd suggest saving money - anyway nearly everyone in the Sidney-Hobart and Fastnet reports reckoned THEIR storm jibs were too big.

That's apart from all the unfair stresses you'll be putting on mast and hull with your proposals - run them is front of a professional rigger and heed his advice.
 

LadyInBed

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I made up my own inner fore-stay, I used a Highfield leaver and swageless ends on the wire, all for less than 200 notes.

Leaver.jpg


Apart from a hank on storm sail, the inner fore-stay is also useful on other occasions, I hank on a high cut Yankee for up wind in a 6 and use the same sail poled out in a Twizzle rig with the Genoa for down wind sailing.

PICT0597.jpg
 
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