Rigging inspection came back, results not good :(

[Spyro]

Your rigger might have referred to the "complete rigging" but I'm sure he only have meant the standing rigging which usually means just the stays and associated fixings.
No reason to replace the lot unless you have. Spare 8-10 grand.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I assume you paid them to inspect the rigging? You should have a report which details the state of each item inspected, even if they found nothing wrong - if only so you know what they actually looked at. Like others, I am sure they meant the standing rigging when they said replace the lot but I think you should still ask what has caused the stray wires. A Halmatic 30 is a pretty solid boat with no history of standing rigging problems so I'd expect a shroud to last nearer 20 years, maybe showing signs of wear after 10 at the minimum. If it's got loose strands after just seven years then it's quite possible that something isn't set up right. Where are the stray strands, at the turnbuckle?

At the moment it's rather as if you've you taken your car in for a service and they've found one tyre has damage even though it's only 3/4 of it's way through it's life so they've suggested you swap out the lot. I'd want to know why the tyre failed and why they think an early failure of one tyre means the all others need replacing. Could well be a valid reason (cheap tyres for example) but you should find out what that is before parting with your cash.

 

[William_H]

Vyv's point is worth noting. Few boatowners will ever tension rigging as highly as a professional rigger would, and fatigue failure is often the result. Even if he replaces the standing rigging himself, the OP would be well advised to get his rigger to tension it properly.

I have serious reservations about this concept that rigging must be very tight to avert fatigue failure. Yes I understand the concept of tension on metal to aleviate fatigue failure but I think that in the case of a boat where the structure of the boat is part of the load path and flexible that any attempt to really tension the wire will result in the boat flexing.
I have seen wire fail a few strands at relatively short life and yes it is lucky it was found. I am not sure it is a reason to replace all the standing rigging. Except that it may not have been replaced when it is claimed and in any case it is the peace of mind of the owner that matters. So yes it is probably right to replace the standing rigging. However I would advocate that the shrouds both inner and cap shroud are the most critical to replace. The forestay tends to have a backup of the jib luff if there is a failure and backstay generally does not have a huge load unless it is cranked on hard for sail flattening.(nothing compared to shroud loads.)
Certainly as said mast and boom are only replaced when really damaged by corrosion etc and should last for ever. good luck olewill

 

[pvb]

I have serious reservations about this concept that rigging must be very tight to avert fatigue failure. Yes I understand the concept of tension on metal to aleviate fatigue failure but I think that in the case of a boat where the structure of the boat is part of the load path and flexible that any attempt to really tension the wire will result in the boat flexing.

If you discuss this with professional riggers, they say that insufficient rig tension allows vibration which ultimately causes failure at terminals.

 

[William_H]

If you discuss this with professional riggers, they say that insufficient rig tension allows vibration which ultimately causes failure at terminals.

We will have to agree to disagree however obviously rig must have sufficient tension to hold it all steady whn at mooring but not the 15% of cab;le max that is quoted. olewill

 

[Fantasie 19]

Your rigger should be able to advise you on the condition of the mast & boom, although as others have said it's unlikely these will need replacing!

+1!

Chris is no slouch (got a lot of time for him) just ask if you're worried...

 

[vyv_cox]

We will have to agree to disagree however obviously rig must have sufficient tension to hold it all steady whn at mooring but not the 15% of cab;le max that is quoted. olewill

Another cause of fatigue is uneven loading causing stress raisers. This can be due to 'banana swages' due to a problem with the tool or poor workmanship, lack of articulation in the fittings, poor fitting design. Slackness in the rig is probably the biggest cause. I agree that the rig does not need to be at racing tension when on its mooring but if there is sufficient movement that the wire above the swage is bending slightly, fatigue will follow.

 

[timmygobang]

Sorry I was referring to standard rigging.

The whole thing came about when a friend thought the lower shroud on the port side appeared a bit slack. So as a precaution I asked Holeman to tension the rig, and at the same time if they could inspect it. As they found the issue with loose strands on the starboard side then it wasn't worth tensioning as they advised to get it replaced before going out again, which I fully agree with.

As mentioned I'll get the whole lot done as a precaution and for peace of mind, then I'll know that it should be fine for a good 10 years, though I will be inspecting my rigging more often.

I only wish I had got the rigging inspected at the time of the survey. For less than £100 for an inspection it would have been worth it, and I could have had more to negotiate with.

I'll ask for their opinion as to why it failed shortly. I was a bit dazed at the time of the phone call yesterday so forgot to ask.

 

[charles_reed]

As part of a getting to know my boat. I got a rigging inspection done for peace of mind.

Turns out Holman Rigging saw something I didn't and the lower shroud has some stray wires, making the boat unsafe to sail.

Recommendation is to get the whole lot redone. The rigging was supposedly done in 2006 by the previous owner.

Question is, is now the time to get a new mast and boom? do people normally do the whole lot if you're the new owner? or to conserve some money is it fine to just get a new mast and leave the boom for now.

Needless to say I could do without the expense

Did he really say "Get the whole lot replaced" meaning just the standing rigging? or spars as well?

A mast is supposed to last the life of the boat - boom-ends need periodic replacement - and standing rigging needs regular replacement - 16 years or once round the world (whichever is less) or until you have strands breaking.
It's probably wise to do the whole lot but, if you are cash-constrained, change all pairs of standing rigging where one or more have broken strands and the caps (as they have the most load.

 

[syfuga]

Interesting.

We had our rigging replaced in Greece in 2008 by IBA, whose advice was to "replace it all", although only one strand of a lower baby stay was broken.

This year, in the course of replacing our furling gear, Jerry Henwood found the same lower broken again. He put it down possibly to the wrong type of swage fitting being used.

 

[vyv_cox]

Interesting.

We had our rigging replaced in Greece in 2008 by IBA, whose advice was to "replace it all", although only one strand of a lower baby stay was broken.

This year, in the course of replacing our furling gear, Jerry Henwood found the same lower broken again. He put it down possibly to the wrong type of swage fitting being used.

Unusual for the same failure to repeat itself unless there is an underlying cause. I assume it has two toggles to give full articulation? Any other possibilities? Anything that prevents the shroud from being in a straight line will cause a stress raiser at one side of the swage.

I see quite a few boats with their octagonal radar reflectors attached to the backstay, oscillating constantly, which I see as a recipe for rig failure.

 

[bitbaltic]

Sorry I was referring to standard rigging.

The whole thing came about when a friend thought the lower shroud on the port side appeared a bit slack. So as a precaution I asked Holeman to tension the rig, and at the same time if they could inspect it. As they found the issue with loose strands on the starboard side then it wasn't worth tensioning as they advised to get it replaced before going out again, which I fully agree with.

As mentioned I'll get the whole lot done as a precaution and for peace of mind, then I'll know that it should be fine for a good 10 years, though I will be inspecting my rigging more often.

I only wish I had got the rigging inspected at the time of the survey. For less than £100 for an inspection it would have been worth it, and I could have had more to negotiate with.

I'll ask for their opinion as to why it failed shortly. I was a bit dazed at the time of the phone call yesterday so forgot to ask.

A proper survey should include an inspection and comments on the standing rigging- the surveyor may not have the eye of a rigger but he should be able to spot stranded wire, and you should expect him to do so and include it in his report.

As others have said the state of the standing rigging has no bearing on the state of the spars. You should have no worries in that quarter.

A rule of thumb (sometimes used by insurance companies) is to replace standing rigging every 10 years. The spars might last the lifetime of the boat.

Cheers

 

[penfold]

Vyv's point is worth noting. Few boatowners will ever tension rigging as highly as a professional rigger would, and fatigue failure is often the result. Even if he replaces the standing rigging himself, the OP would be well advised to get his rigger to tension it properly.

Better still buy a tension gauge and learn how to do it yourself; as it's not being set up for racing it should be straight forward.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I borrowed a Loos gauge recently to set up my pal's rigging. It was easy to use and better than the 'stretch' method using just a tape measure. We found we had to take it up quite a lot! Correctly tensioned rigging is frighteningly tight - we stuck to the lower recommended tension as I was concerned we were going to pull the chain plates off the old thing.

 

[Highndry]

My 1979 Hunter Medina still has the original mast and boom and they still appear to be in very good condition. However, at the beginning of this year I had all the standing rigging (with the exception of the backstay which the rigger said didn't need doing) replaced (made by merlin3688 of this site) and then fitted by the rigger at Rutland Chandlery. She's like a new boat.